Upcoming episode and discussion
Added 2022-01-11 00:48:38 +0000 UTCThis is Lauren.
This is a recording/video recently shared on YouTube (trigger warning: emotional abuse: https://youtu.be/fMul-OksIfc
I plan to ask John some questions about this recording for a Patreon episode soon.
What personally catches my attention about the ‘Joseph Smith Foundation’ recording is that similar to the Daybell’s, this LDS family seems to have intense beliefs beyond current mainstream LDS teachings.
I see the Daybell case as one with motives steeped in radicalized religion. It shows us how interpretations of beliefs can become dangerous.
I believe it’s important to discuss ideologies in these closeted religious communities, especially those groups that have a public influence like ‘The Joseph Smith Foundation’ does.
Ideologies can and do lead to crime.
Many stayed quiet about the Daybell beliefs, or people ignored the concerns. I want to explore these groups that are hiding in plain sight —hiding within mainstream religion.
For those who are interested in listening to the recording and asking Dr John some questions beforehand, please do. For a transcription /explanation of the recording, here is a link:
-Lauren
Comments
I’m glad he is your ex.
Heidi
2023-01-26 03:26:11 +0000 UTCSorry for my previous comments I deleted. When I listened to this I got the family members mixed up. I was confused. The behaviors didn’t fit with those arguing. I thought the wife was Hannah Stoddard and the father (James) and daughters were confronting her about her scary beliefs. But the whole time listening I kept thinking the Dad should have never involved his grown children in this and also, I could never be married to that man! And how if the wife is bad, how can she remain so calm during all of this. Yeah, behaviors didn’t fit the people. I’ve educated myself on who everyone is now. I’ve never heard this, thanks for sharing. And I don’t know much about James Stoddard. James mentions Phil, could that be the Phil who thinks he is reincarnated Joseph Smith and the leader of the Doctrine of Christ church that is gaining traction?
ShaRee
2022-02-22 01:10:37 +0000 UTCHe keeps saying dark spirits 😬
Laura Rojas
2022-02-16 20:57:24 +0000 UTCI saw that as well. My thought was that maybe the kids didn’t include her in the obituary to punish her - I didn’t think about the possibility of divorce. I would never have spoken to my mother the way that those girls did, and even if I had my father most certainly would not have supported me to do so.
Karen Frankiewitz
2022-02-02 18:58:56 +0000 UTCI agree. Hearing “you always…” and “you never….” is my trigger. That, and being told that what happened didn’t happen, or you didn’t say what you actually said. Gaslighting 101.
Karen Frankiewitz
2022-02-02 18:17:21 +0000 UTCI hope she had an evil spirit in her pocket that she could unleash on the piece of work - and if I heard Hannah say “huh” one more time …… that girl …. What a horrible human being he was - and to gang up on her like that … goodness they are pitiful….. was “dad” sexually abusing the daughters? Dysfunction Junction 🚂🤪
Julie Wilburn
2022-01-24 20:14:24 +0000 UTCOut of curiosity Dr. John, where would you begin in therapy with a child from a home like this?
Lauren Rencher
2022-01-16 20:45:38 +0000 UTCI got to 9:46 of this recording on the TCU FB site and had to shut it down. I can’t explain how it made me feel. They’re sick, evil monsters. James Stoddard and his horrifying “children of the corn”.
Prince Charmings Mom 2930
2022-01-15 06:33:59 +0000 UTCI can’t believe the gas lighting! This poor woman! How is it that all these crazy fringe groups are seemingly coming out of idaho & utah? I haven’t seen them here in the SF Bay Area. Why are so many trying to add on to the church teachings? Does it have to do with the fear of change? We are now a global church, and the word “global” scares some of these people. I’ve never been on Avow, but I have been on a few LDS sites that call out people like Julie Rowe and energy healing, as I do know a few women here that are deep in oils and energy healing, but I don’t think they are as deep as Julie Rowe is. What is it that so many people in the church are trying to “dig” deeper or “get to the meat” of the scriptures? I have spent the last few days looking at a zillion YouTube videos of different new and upcoming so called “prophets” and their followings. It seems like they attract the women first. It really makes me think if there is more mental issues in my religion than in other religions. Could Dr John talk about mental illness and fringe beliefs and if there is a connection. I’m no doctor, but I’m seeing it.
Nora Ann
2022-01-14 02:54:42 +0000 UTCGee wiz- How much does this power daughter sound just like Emma Daybell ? But I doubt that Tammy had the fight in her that the mother on this clip does. She obviously had a mind of her own and is strong enough to question and speak her mind. I wish she had got her kids away when they were young. My husband played this type of mind game and I didn’t have the strength to defend myself- this mother obviously has an intact self as she’s not been destroyed by this harassment. She talks back way more than i would’ve dared. She can stand up for herself I just wish she had protected the kids. But that the thing about patriarchy that I learnt when studying womens studies- it takes both men and women to be on board and raise kids with these values. The kids sound grown up now- I wonder why the mum stays.
Tad Auty
2022-01-13 23:26:30 +0000 UTCMan I wish it was illegal to talk to kids about religion or mention heaven , hell, dark spirits, Satan etc Using fear and “spiritual “ authority to control and warp the brains of young people - It’s flat out child abuse and turns some people into monsters. If one parent is abusive/ the other should save their children from this damage. But how can they if they all believe that children are possessions they can lie and indoctrinate. So infuriating! So John- Where’s the line of what’s abusive? Telling kids there is a Satan or a hell- isn’t that just flat out mind torture ? Using fear to control. And telling kids about fiction and calling it reality? Erikson moral development ideas and how this type of parental control effects development and peoples moral/ ethical character and maturity. Blaming evil spirits is such a cop out. ( I know people can nicely teach kids comparative religion without ever saying that something is “the truth “ or that one religion is correct etc - philosophical discussion can be great/ dogma - abuse )
Tad Auty
2022-01-13 22:07:46 +0000 UTCA cult called The Twelve Tribes renames their members to Hebrew names. They’re currently under investigation for possibly being the source of the most recent Colorado fire that destroyed almost 1000 homes.
Edie Miller
2022-01-13 18:08:47 +0000 UTCActually I’d probably pop one of them, especially after, about the 10th “huhh”.
Suki Pero
2022-01-13 03:20:54 +0000 UTCThe only response I would have to any of these people is “F.O”, about a million times. Goodness, grab a treat honey.
Suki Pero
2022-01-13 03:17:11 +0000 UTCThere’s a lot of keeping track and tallying other’s faults and infringements in order to throw it in their faces. The, “you do X all the time…every day…constantly…all day long.” 😩
pigasus
2022-01-13 01:27:57 +0000 UTCI know this was “secretly” recorded so the mom may have reacted better but it really seemed like gaslighting at its finest. They projected everything they did onto the mom. I know they were going through a divorce at this time and things weren’t good between the family. I was cringing when they called her out on her “sins” and that she had evil spirits. This was so hard to hear. I hope the mom is living a good life now. He died a few years ago and Hannah is the leader now.
Kim Chapman
2022-01-13 00:52:14 +0000 UTCAlso, can you interview someone about vocal affect. There is almost a “sound” or cadence or specific intonation that I hear in mainstream LDS (most strongly in missionaries and leaders), Fundamental Mormon groups, and other Fundamental groups, but not so much mainstream Evangelicals. This dad and Chad have very similar speaking tones and patterns.
Cami Hurst
2022-01-12 20:42:28 +0000 UTCI’m a marriage and family therapist, and the way this family is communicating gave me an absolute stomach ache!! News flash, emotions (ALL EMOTIONS) are valuable feedback. They are not evil spirits. In my work, anger is often a really great internal warming sign of injustice and boundary violations. This woman needs to listen to her anger, not root it out. The blame, contempt, and family trial happening here is sad, unhealthy, and very manipulative. The “truth finding” by Hannah and her dad is putting the children against the parents. It also is lacking in context which allows for abuse (someone is either lying or telling the truth - no context, no intentions, highly authoritarian, no nuance).
Cami Hurst
2022-01-12 20:38:51 +0000 UTCThat is so funny!!! You are spot-on!!
Sharon Clemons
2022-01-12 16:15:25 +0000 UTCThis is so terrible, I hope Sarah has found a much better life. It’s interesting that James and Chad had no qualms about jettisoning their wives once they had become Gods/humble/understand exactly who or what Jesus had planned. I can only think that by grooming their daughters (children) to be super committed true believers they can get rid of their wives who remember them when they were just ordinary but probably boring 20somethings. In this instance the daughters were encouraged to behave so badly to their mother while in Tammys case “everyone “ knew she was going to die but none one thought to tell her. All I can hope is that these appalling offspring get the same treatment by their children. What else I noticed is that even though the horrible James and Hannah chucked the two eldest sons out of the family they were included in James funeral obituary but his wife did not exist. Don’t the lions or tigers make the males leave the pride so there is only one leader of the pack?
Elizabeth Campbell
2022-01-12 09:41:57 +0000 UTCIt may be harsh, but I am glad to hear this man is no longer here. I hope he is answering to God for all of his issues. 🤦🏼♀️ Do we know is she got away from him before he passed away?
Tamara Carter
2022-01-12 03:38:00 +0000 UTCI don’t know who these people are but talk about disrespectful. The 2 daughters were horrible especially the one named Hannah. She sounded like a member of the mafia. The dad seems to have done a fine job turning the girls against their mom but I find it concerning that Leah, the one the mom was taking up for, jumped in on the bandwagon. There are 2 sides to every story and we only got one side. The mom doesn’t sound like she would be the way they are describing her but you don’t really know a person until you live with them. Do not get me wrong, I do not agree with how they bullied her and would not give her examples of the behaviors they are accusing her of, but we or I honestly don’t know what kind of mom she is or was. I don’t like the way things went in this. I will be very interested in hearing what Dr John has to say.
Lori B
2022-01-11 20:28:20 +0000 UTCWell, that's a red flag.
Jennie Anderson
2022-01-11 16:01:27 +0000 UTCFrom what I understand, she changed it (or possibly James gave her a new name) — to something Biblical.
Julie Holden
2022-01-11 15:24:36 +0000 UTCOh my goodness-this is the exact kind of bullying I experienced from my narcissistic ex husband, except he did not use religious spin to rationalize the abuse. Religion sure seems to be a convenient way for narcisssists to claim moral authority, and think their way is right since they twist the scriptures to fit every power struggle they want to win. For any questions, mom deserved vicious character assassinations and gaslighting about her being twice as bad. Even when you do things "their way",( which of course once you do, they don't care) they will make a different demand so there is a cycle of rationalizing never ending abuse. If you stand up for yourself, you are evil, crazy and angry. Very typical in domestic abuse that the abusers accuse the abused. So much gaslighting. The father and daughter are narcissistic claiming abuse every time. The only way for mom to win these discussions is to never be in one and go no contact with at least dad and the evil daughter with that insidious laugh. She and Lea may be ok eventually since she wasn't obeying correctly either!
Jennifer Priebe
2022-01-11 15:21:06 +0000 UTCIn the transcription it says that the mom's name is, Sarah. But on the True Crime Underground YouTube channel everyone refers to her as, Leslie.
Jennie Anderson
2022-01-11 15:04:27 +0000 UTCI just remembered that James passed away last September. So, I guess from him we don't have to worry for the mom. Although Hannah is still around perpetuating these beliefs.
Jennie Anderson
2022-01-11 14:55:41 +0000 UTCSplitting and parental alienation much? Sheesh 🙄 What really bothers me is how the star daughter expresses derision and disgust by that sinister laugh-tic.
Karin Baird
2022-01-11 09:58:25 +0000 UTC…and James sounds like Michael Scott.
Lindsey Lou
2022-01-11 06:15:43 +0000 UTCThe gaslighting game in this family is strong.
Lindsey Lou
2022-01-11 06:13:05 +0000 UTCBoth Hannah and Leah had the same verbal tic. Very odd.
Lindsey Lou
2022-01-11 06:00:19 +0000 UTCThank you for the transcript. I couldn't listen for very long. It was easier to read. There was a ton of gas lighting going on. Sarah was a fighter. Recording the "dicussions" gave her concrete proof of reality and of who said what, and allowed her to cease questioning her own sanity (which she must have done at least occasionally). I hope there was no physical abuse to go with this. Having to deal with this 💩show was bad enough.
B Sprak
2022-01-11 05:57:03 +0000 UTCThe transcription gives a background on motive
Lauren and John Matthias
2022-01-11 05:31:07 +0000 UTCWell I read his obituary. His wife is never mentioned. She must have left him. The children turned against her. The obituary written by the children is a tribute to a legend of a father in their eyes. Tragic that a mother of 9 living children had to leave to survive this life. 😢😢My take on this poor brow beaten wife/mothers life.
Kristie Nicoll
2022-01-11 05:20:26 +0000 UTCWho recorded this? Who posted this and what was their motive?
Kristie Nicoll
2022-01-11 05:06:54 +0000 UTCThe biggest indicators of an emotionally abusive relationship in this recording is the use of her own shame and humiliation to control the mother, and turning the daughters against her from a young age. He’s using her intense shame and vulnerabilities regarding her past “sins” to tear her self-worth down, while building himself up. This entire conversation is completely inappropriate for the daughters to be a part of, and I can guarantee they were butted between these two from a young age. Seeing the mom discredited again and again, they have no respect for her, then saw their dad as “logical”. This mom now see’s that he’s being inappropriately controlling/demeaning towards Leah, and she’s standing up for her. Ugh. This is all so sad.
Crystal Jensen
2022-01-11 03:45:02 +0000 UTCSorry I have to comment again - how is this right that he and his daughters confront her about being demeaning…he can’t even give her an example except that she has been angry for the last week and a half. He says so many times that they would be better without her - that’s not demeaning?! And they are fighting to save the church…how? He is such a creep! How do people exist in this environment? I don’t understand it!
Melissa Wright
2022-01-11 03:27:50 +0000 UTCCorrect. He founded the JS Foundation. His daughter Hannah is now running it after his death.
Lauren and John Matthias
2022-01-11 03:00:12 +0000 UTChttps://josephsmithfoundation.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/09/dad_funeral_program_003.jpg James Franklin Stoddard III—beloved father of 10 children and the founder of the Joseph Smith Foundation—passed away with faith and peace after a courageous battle with stage 4 lung cancer on the morning of September 6, 2021 in Provo, Utah. FUNERAL SERVICE
Kristie Nicoll
2022-01-11 02:58:45 +0000 UTCSo curious if this man talking was James Franklin Stoddard the 3rd? Dies in 2021 of Lung Cancer? Can anyone verify this?
Kristie Nicoll
2022-01-11 02:53:20 +0000 UTCI understand. I just added a trigger warning for others. -Lauren
Lauren and John Matthias
2022-01-11 02:46:21 +0000 UTCThis is heartbreaking on one end and disgusting on the other! It’s clear that this mother has taken this abuse many times. This is not righteous, it is so full of evil it makes me sick to my stomach! I want this woman out of this situation! I look forward to hearing John and Lauren’s discussion on this!
Melissa Wright
2022-01-11 02:46:15 +0000 UTCI wish I could watch this but I'd always affects me too much and hurts my feelings and then I get angry and upset that people don't understand things in the right way. I just can't do it
Crystal Swannack
2022-01-11 02:39:50 +0000 UTCHere is a link to the transcription of the video: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1FN_HQTYRU7mENCrShhkntoGhG9CocP3u/view?fbclid=IwAR2xTi-gkIYQvqDDsJvE6raZ8eeA0C5MxBliWJdqiP9qzNylq60jFHh-rCI
Lauren and John Matthias
2022-01-11 02:39:25 +0000 UTCSomeone asked about a link to the video on YouTube. Here it is: https://youtu.be/fMul-OksIfc
Lauren and John Matthias
2022-01-11 02:38:59 +0000 UTCI have been concerned about Hannah, her father and the Joseph Smith Foundation in general for a few years now. I'm glad that you two are addressing this. They seem to me to be becoming more extreme as time goes on. Either that or they are just putting out enough content that I realize how extreme they are. They're really coming down hard on the mom here. I don't think I could stand for that. At the end of most of the girls sentences they give a little "ha". Is this a chuckle? I think the parents do it a bit too. I get the impression from Hannah, and her father, that she is a "daddy's girl". Should we be concerned about the wellbeing of this mom? Her husband has said repeatedly that he would be better off without her. Do you know who recorded this?
Jennie Anderson
2022-01-11 02:32:06 +0000 UTCI’ve only listened to the first few minutes but it sounds as though this is an enmeshed family. It sounds like the adult children still lived at home and were treated like children. It also sounds like they all worked together in this foundation? It also makes me think of the Turpin family, in the sense that the children aren’t allowed to leave the home and influence of their parents, especially their father. The father also seems to exert a lot of control over everyone else. Can you speak to this? I’m interested in hearing what Dr. John has to say.
Stacie
2022-01-11 02:22:13 +0000 UTCThis is unbelievable. This is not a true Christian home. This man is poisoning these children/young adults. How can this women stay?
Kristie Nicoll
2022-01-11 02:20:11 +0000 UTCWow! That was really hard to listen to! My heart goes out to that mother😪 The father yes is dangerous… he’s believing his wife is possessed… what if he decides to ‘fix” her??? He’s messed those children’s heads up too so the abuse flows down to the next generation?? Unbearable horrible man!
Melinda Ngawaka
2022-01-11 02:14:34 +0000 UTCWow! Had to stop a few minutes into listening. Hannah, you need to run far away from these people.
Marcella Able
2022-01-11 01:54:18 +0000 UTCQ: If every action & emotion someone experiences is due to good or evil spirits, does that take away personal responsibility? What about achievement or satisfaction or happiness - is that is off the table too? This family sounds miserable and stuck. Zero of this conversation is appreciative or lifiting up one another or acknowledging someone's feelings or motives or unmet needs. Is it normal for them to just be mean to each other? What the heck!!
Samantha Wolf
2022-01-11 01:45:14 +0000 UTCI cannot listen to this for very long. Clearly these people have never been taught to fight fair. The blame game is so strong. There are no “I” statements it’s all”you do this, you do that”. I feel like these people need a referee or a good therapist. I want the girl being ganged up on to leave and find people who will value her. What are they projecting? What is their purpose? Do they want to break her spirit? Put her in her place? She cannot win. She will never be able to please them. Listening to this triggers me.
Tamara Wakeman Sukohl
2022-01-11 01:25:38 +0000 UTCI truly am so curious about Hannah's — vocal tic? This "huh!!" thing she does so often. I don't think she does this anymore. Any thoughts on what's going on there? It is so odd to me!
Julie Holden
2022-01-11 01:24:26 +0000 UTC
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