Hell on Earth - Appendix 3: MONEY (feat. Patrick Wyman)
Added 2023-03-29 11:00:03 +0000 UTCWe’re joined by author and podcaster Patrick Wyman (Tides of History, The Verge) to discuss developments in money, finance and banking during the pre-modern period. As well as, of course, those dastardly Fuggers.
Find Tides of History here: https://wondery.com/shows/tides-of-history/
Find “The Verge: Reformation, Renaissance, and Forty Years that Shook the World” here: https://www.twelvebooks.com/titles/patrick-wyman/the-verge/9781538701171/
Comments
how much a thaller really cost?
Shane-A112
2024-08-19 05:45:50 +0000 UTCthe anarchy by william dalrymple is a solid one
Crew Bittner
2023-05-09 01:27:40 +0000 UTCAny nonfiction book suggestions on 17th century companies (e.g. Dutch East India) and economics?
CJ Horton
2023-04-05 15:03:34 +0000 UTCThis is a great series, and I really hope they keep doing projects like this. I do feel like the proposed thesis of this period being uniquely critical in the "genesis of capitalism" is a bit forced though. Critical, sure, but hardly unique. They themselves discuss multiple times earlier in the episode how many of the essential innovations of commercial capitalism, such as financial instruments, accounting methods, insurance, and legally recognized commercial partnerships, existed even in the middle ages or before (the main innovation actually occurring in this period being joint-stock companies). Regarding industrial capitalism, there are also important developments before (the putting-out system in Italian and Flemish textiles) and after (Colbert's domestic monopoly factories) the 30 Years War period leading up to the Industrial Revolution. Doesn't take away from how cool this period and series has been though!
Discount Cagliostro
2023-04-04 16:35:26 +0000 UTCThere's a really good interview on Lapham's Quarterly with William Dalrymple (Episode 49), which is a nice compliment to this episode and the series. e.g. How did England rise to become the pre-eminent economic global and political power (until its decline in the early 20th century)? What was the impact of weapons development during the 30 years war on European imperial power in the centuries that followed? Some real useful details in terms of the development of global capitalism, the formation of the British East India Company, the movement towards colonization, etc.
J P 3
2023-04-03 06:18:43 +0000 UTCLife is like a hurricane; here in; Augsburg Fuck Tales, oowwooo
skrrt vonnegut
2023-04-02 15:18:13 +0000 UTCwyman is always such a good guest, he gets it
bruce moment
2023-04-01 10:19:36 +0000 UTCThanks so much for popularizing medieval and early modern history—you guys rule. Listeners might find this of interest: https://againstthecurrent.org/atc220/echoes-of-money-in-times-past/
Daniel Johnson
2023-03-31 16:56:52 +0000 UTCHell ya love me some Pat Wyman since way back in the Heavy Hands days
Pulver
2023-03-31 02:12:20 +0000 UTCMeet the Fuggers
Ozzie
2023-03-31 00:27:00 +0000 UTCThis whole series makes me want to play the board game Here I Stand again.
EricVulgaris
2023-03-31 00:21:22 +0000 UTCReally enjoyed the slight variations on the pronunciation of Fugger every time it was sad
Nick Muscatiello
2023-03-30 14:07:54 +0000 UTCYou could’ve just praised Patrick, but instead you had to be a cunt about it? Ffs, listening to norm was fine. Way better than reading these cringe ass crybaby comments about how you can’t handle listening to a conversation. You know there’s a pause button, right? You could’ve stopped
William
2023-03-30 13:03:23 +0000 UTCNot entirely true - this skips over a lot of what was actually happening. “Capital” started to flow north first under control of the Genoan merchant finance networks and then as those began to wane due to losses via Spanish write offs, the center of trade activity began to shift to the Low Countries, where the joint stock companies you talk about started to do their thing. The Dutch established those direct links and the British took them over after the Dutch power began to wane
William
2023-03-30 12:53:15 +0000 UTCMissing the mention of Genoa and their collab with Spain; dutch started to rise after Genoa as their monopoly on Baltic trade allowed them the surpluses to invest in other… “activities“ let’s call them. The long twentieth century answers Matt’s question about “capitalism “ moving from Italy, up the rhine, then to the Low countries and to england
William
2023-03-30 12:49:12 +0000 UTCIt would have been impossible to do a better job on this series than you two did. A+
David Andrews
2023-03-30 12:45:25 +0000 UTCPatrick wyman. Nuanced takes on history taking into account the complexities of material, social, and cultural relationships. Infinitely better than listening to Norman Finkelstein rant about how one of the richest men in the worlds childhood trauma justifies him killing thousands of people in a war of occupation.
Philip P Deveney
2023-03-30 05:06:49 +0000 UTCThanks for another great episode guys. With respect to the "why did capital start flowing north?" question, part of the answer is in William Dalrymple's great book "The Anarchy" about the history of the British East India Company. Part of the short answer is that the joint stock companies were able to bypass the middle men (the Venetians, etc), by establishing direct links with resource markets. In the case of British, this maneuver was made necessary in the 1500s and 1600s by Henry VIII's split from the Catholic Church and the response of Spain and France. e.g. the English established a trading relationship with the Ottomans after being shut out of large parts of the continental trading system.
J P 3
2023-03-30 04:19:45 +0000 UTC1 thaler = 1 oz silver = roughly $25 usd. 1 PS5 = 20 thalers or if you use the 17th century gold/silver ratio it'd be 1/15th of an ounce of gold ($130 USD), in which case a PS5 would only be about 4 thalers.
Dylan
2023-03-30 03:45:05 +0000 UTCPls bring on Mike Duncan. He has nothing to do now that Revolutions is done.
Brian O'Connor
2023-03-30 02:52:59 +0000 UTCI DONT UDERSTAND WHY YOU GUYS DONT CREDIT THE MUSIC LIKE THE THEME SONG???? JUST SAYING NICK DIMONDS ISNT ENUF
bator
2023-03-30 02:19:45 +0000 UTCbest podcast miniseries ever. love that you’ve put this together. please keep making appendices forever, thank you
Joseph A Carpenter
2023-03-30 00:31:46 +0000 UTCThe real question is, how can I get mad at this episode? Uhhhhh Fugger apologia? Wow sir. Sit down. Take several seats How’s that
Rohmer Simpson
2023-03-29 21:33:07 +0000 UTCExcited to see a War Nerd appearance next EP
electradescending
2023-03-29 21:17:23 +0000 UTCHell yes pleasant hell by John dolan
(American spirit menthol
2023-03-29 20:28:42 +0000 UTCMoney dudes wanting to be 'noble' has given us all this entitlement ever since among the bourgeoisie! "itsa nothin' personal.... itsa jus' bizzunisss'
David Cox
2023-03-29 20:09:48 +0000 UTCShe Fugger my Jakob till I, she Augs my Burg till I Fugger, she Jaks-ob my Fugger till Aug-Spurg, she,
Gubriel
2023-03-29 19:48:20 +0000 UTCI fugged my money up (damn) Now i can’t re-up
Alec
2023-03-29 18:45:02 +0000 UTCI'm not an expert in any of this, but the descriptions of finance sure sounded like Hawala (wikipedia will do here) to me. Then, I found "New perspective on the evolution of double-entry bookkeeping" by JL Williams. That makes it sound it like this technique comes with the Hindu/Arabic numerals we use now.
Robert Sayre
2023-03-29 17:59:59 +0000 UTCDo any of these Fuckers ever blast out of the wall and have like a huge cum shot??
CJ
2023-03-29 17:20:19 +0000 UTCI dunno, I liked both interviews, and I think their presentation styles are tailored to their subjects. Like, Wyman is focused on the broad material and structural changes that drive historical events, and takes a drier, more analytical approach. Janega is focused on the quotidian details of life at the time, and uses a humorous tone and modern references to make the topic relatable.
Ian H
2023-03-29 16:53:49 +0000 UTCAlso tulips are still a legitimate cash crop in the Netherlands. My partner works at a major public garden and they buy tens of thousands of dollars worth of imported Dutch bulbs every year. I think it's something like 5% of their total exports.
Ian H
2023-03-29 16:45:26 +0000 UTCGreat episode. Have to say I vastly prefer Wyman’s clear and eloquent explanations to Janega’s tedious and belabored LOLrandom schtick.
J Fitz
2023-03-29 16:41:25 +0000 UTC70IQ: tulip bubble is like cryptocurrency: speculative exchange value running way ahead of use value and makeing everyone look pretty dumb in the process 130IQ: tulip bubble is like cryptocurrency: negligible real-life economic impact
etienne
2023-03-29 16:35:30 +0000 UTCMy question is do any of these little Fuggers ever start blasting out of the walls?
Mike Noble
2023-03-29 16:29:42 +0000 UTCHow Much a Thaler Cost
Ian King
2023-03-29 16:20:27 +0000 UTCPatrick is terrific, I love his pod. Great get, guys.
Kevin Essington
2023-03-29 16:08:23 +0000 UTCLETS FUCKING GOOOOOOOOOO
Declan McNamara
2023-03-29 15:58:17 +0000 UTCGod, that opening theme is so fucking good.
Jammy Cooks
2023-03-29 15:46:46 +0000 UTCI sure am enjoying Chapo Trap House's first and only upload so far this week!
Isaac Jones
2023-03-29 14:10:32 +0000 UTCImagine telling your grandpa in 1955 that in 2023 you could buy a 10 pound tv with a picture that might as well be real life flattened out for $27 their money
SlowTrickle
2023-03-29 13:50:33 +0000 UTCGrowing increasingly distressed that this amazing series will have to end and I’ll have to try pretending that Will talking about movies will be a worthy replacement.
Alex RoQ
2023-03-29 13:38:10 +0000 UTCBest ep yet really looking forward to hearing from John too
J Lit
2023-03-29 13:19:18 +0000 UTCThe music gets me. Every time.
October
2023-03-29 12:34:08 +0000 UTCI'm loving this series. I live in Bohemia and it reminds me why I am so fascinated with the history of this region. Please don't stop this ride.
Joakim Kaastrup
2023-03-29 12:06:15 +0000 UTCBig armed pat
Adam Murphy
2023-03-29 11:45:56 +0000 UTC2Flush2Fugger
etienne
2023-03-29 11:33:20 +0000 UTCSixth!
Luke Cragg
2023-03-29 11:31:31 +0000 UTCI hope there are 11 appendixes. I don't want to get off this ride.
Yutawq
2023-03-29 11:17:26 +0000 UTCNever pressed play so fast
Beijing Sausage
2023-03-29 11:12:20 +0000 UTCDamn Fuggers!
Tristan Bavol
2023-03-29 11:11:32 +0000 UTC
