MM23: Through A Glass Darkly - Simulated Realities of Mamoru Oshii feat. Felix Biederman
Added 2024-06-05 11:00:14 +0000 UTCFelix joins Will and Hesse to look at two films from director Mamoru Oshii, Angel’s Egg (1985) & Patlabor 2 (1993). Both films explore Oshii’s fascination with navigating simulated and detached realities, with Angel’s Egg offering a mysterious dystopia laden with religious and symbolism and allegories for birth, and Patlabor 2 addressing suppressed emotions around Japan’s political situation in the 90’s. The crew unpacks the filmmaker's metaphorical storytelling with a fair bit of discussion of Japan’s unique social and political context post WWII.
Comments
Real recognises real
Eamon Short
2025-06-13 03:39:10 +0000 UTCWhy won’t this episode play?
Shawn Dempsey
2024-11-07 08:42:40 +0000 UTCI keep returning to this ep months later. The theme of loss of faith is resonant with me on the left, as the world is gets worse. The 1 Corinthians 13:11 verse cited by the hosts effected me deeply. For me, childish thoughts was idealism/moralism and thinking like an adult is historical materialism and engaging with the world as it exists. I miss Michael Brooks' view on left spirituality, it's sorely needed in these dark times
Cardboard
2024-10-20 18:42:16 +0000 UTCI would love a whole run of the mindset view of anime movies
Taz
2024-06-19 01:38:17 +0000 UTC"Writing about music is like dancing about architecture" -Frank Zappa
kee
2024-06-11 18:58:36 +0000 UTCI wouldn’t agree that “Akira” is nihilistic, I think perhaps the movie can be read that way but certainly not if you have the context of the manga. Without the manga I agree that nihilism is a valid potential take-away. In the manga Akira is clearly (and all but explicitly) a buddhist story about how we exist in a never ending cycle of destruction and creation, each leading to the other. Oshii may not have become a priest in the end but I feel like his Christian background may have influenced his reaction to Akira on some level, because Akira isn’t saying destruction is good (and in the manga there are several explosions and people keep on living) it’s saying destruction is just a thing that happens and that we all react differently when we face it. As much as Japan is influenced by the bomb and the destruction of WWII we’re talking about a country where you lose count of the earthquake warnings and how many things of yours have been broken by earthquakes. I think the mindset that destruction can bring something positive is maybe necessary in a place like that just to get by day-to-day.
Adam Foster
2024-06-09 14:08:02 +0000 UTCi didnt know you guys covered actual good content
Pantato
2024-06-09 07:00:27 +0000 UTCThis was my first MM episode, great ep everyone
Cardboard
2024-06-08 19:46:06 +0000 UTCBest movie mindset TO DATE!
江戸 ねビル
2024-06-08 12:10:24 +0000 UTCJames Cameron called Oshii's Avalon (2001) "the most artistic, beautiful and stylish [film] in Science Fiction history"
kallampero
2024-06-08 06:00:21 +0000 UTCThank you so much, was crying in the car listening to this.
Kevin Spicer
2024-06-08 04:42:39 +0000 UTCReally wanna see these. Thanks for this.
Kevin Spicer
2024-06-08 04:23:57 +0000 UTCanyone who dogs angels egg should check out texhnolyze or chiaki j konaka in general
Michael Austin
2024-06-07 20:21:46 +0000 UTCYou dont have to watch patlabor 1. They're standalone tbh. First one is good but its def more mecha based then the second one.
Ricardo
2024-06-07 12:27:21 +0000 UTCShould I watch Patlabor 1 before 2?
Chris T
2024-06-07 12:14:13 +0000 UTCOne quote I’ve heard before and still find intriguing is “Koreans got what Japan deserved (as punishment).” I hope I get to listen to discussion involving films like The Host (Bong one) or Joint Security Area, which touch on themes like Korea-US relation or longstanding division of Korea, someday.
leeythe
2024-06-07 05:55:51 +0000 UTCOfc Felix gets invited to weeb appreciation day
PenjaminFranklin
2024-06-07 05:21:58 +0000 UTCSo Angel's Egg is literally "Can I offer you an egg in these trying times"
Regular guy
2024-06-07 03:37:27 +0000 UTCi was so excited for this one. shout out to action channel for exposing kid me to all the patlabor movies.
luffa
2024-06-07 02:10:30 +0000 UTCThis was great y’all thought of these movies in ways I hadn’t thought of or hadn’t noticed. The thing hesse said about the jug not looking full despite being full is like if the jug is submerged in water was an interesting thought. Really enjoyed watching these movies
Chris
2024-06-06 20:10:29 +0000 UTCsoooo is Time For My Stories going to be reissued or do i need to keep skimming it in semi complete form from youtube channels named like The Covfefe Chronicles
etienne
2024-06-06 19:01:38 +0000 UTCThat's okay, Hesse wasn't listening to fucking anyone.
Thankyou For Reading Out My Name In This Accent
2024-06-06 18:25:41 +0000 UTCThat quote about dancing for architecture Hessa mentioned was by Frank Zappa
Jones Kolbinsky
2024-06-06 16:57:53 +0000 UTCI appreciate the shout out to Shin Godzilla -- really a perfect film. Great episode.
auf die Welle
2024-06-06 16:00:48 +0000 UTCYES YES YES YES FUCK YES THANK YOU FOR THIS EPISODE
江戸 ねビル
2024-06-06 15:09:39 +0000 UTCDelighted to see Oshii’s work get much deserved recognition AND for Felix to get on movie mindset. Love the episode everyone
Nicholas Needham
2024-06-06 11:43:54 +0000 UTCand then some guy committed an act of Aggression-Style Pacifism by doming his ass with the Gadgetron 3000 Deluxe right? I guess it was more about the moonies but still
etienne
2024-06-06 11:02:54 +0000 UTCRegarding the seminary thing: I remember reading somewhere he thought about going when he was young but later realized he just liked the christian mythology and biblical imagery and was glad to not have gone. He’s apparently a fan of the stories and themes of the bible and rereads it often but doesn’t consider himself religious.
Dylan
2024-06-06 06:26:07 +0000 UTCWill: Even weirder than calling them the self-defense forces was what happened when Abe was trying to amend the constitution in recent years. He claimed that Japan would still be a pacifist nation, even if it had the right to attack enemy territory, because they would be engaging in "pro-active pacifism" (積極的平和主義）
Last Years Man
2024-06-06 06:18:53 +0000 UTCOops, just heard WIll make the exact same point.
Last Years Man
2024-06-06 05:44:29 +0000 UTCRe: the god destroying the world thing in Angel's Egg, I sort of had the sense that things paused after the floods and it wasn't necessarily God that did so - that humanity was supposed to start over but was afraid. So things are kind of in stasis until they finally break the egg, which is where all the forces of creation were trapped inside.
Last Years Man
2024-06-06 05:19:31 +0000 UTCOne of the best parts about Patlabor 2 is how realistic its portrayal of Tokyo is. It's easy to forget this is sci-fi about giant robots, because the way infrastructure is portrayed is 100% accurate to the time. It's not just that the Rainbow Bridge is real, as are a lot of the shots of narrow streets covered with signs. It's also the way the infrastructure functions in Tokyo and what would happen in a city that spread out and densely crowded if all forms of transportation were suddenly cut off. You'd be completely stranded and at the mercy of whatever military force was pouring down on you, just like you see in the story.
Last Years Man
2024-06-06 05:11:12 +0000 UTCI fucking loved this
Randy
2024-06-06 04:57:16 +0000 UTCInteresting read of Madoka Magica. I only ever interpreted it as some weird expression on the futility of resisting the Dao or Samsara. Weird. That makes it much more on the nose and I am also not sure what to make of it.
K H
2024-06-06 04:35:25 +0000 UTCWill understands trans women are women that’s why he wasn’t listening when Hesse was talking about the Bible
Wildly Absurd
2024-06-06 04:16:00 +0000 UTCThe thing about the vessel already being full because they are submerged in some way is wild. Like...bruh? 🤯
K H
2024-06-06 02:35:13 +0000 UTCjust want hesse to know we recognized when will didn’t listen and repeated what you just said
jack
2024-06-06 01:22:43 +0000 UTCThis was a slog
Peen Israel
2024-06-06 00:39:06 +0000 UTCAlex Jones grew up in an exurb of Goblintown
Christopher E Musgrave
2024-06-05 23:15:39 +0000 UTCMovies are boring
buttface
2024-06-05 23:09:20 +0000 UTCI also thought that the ark looked like a seed at the end. When the boy talks about the tree of life, he talks about how it grew out of nothing as if to grab something. The ark in the nothingness reminded me of that.
Sam
2024-06-05 22:29:34 +0000 UTCsee a lot of Patlabor in the Front Mission games
Bob Chappell
2024-06-05 22:26:33 +0000 UTCAnother good animated episode would be the hobbit and the last unicorn
Dick Van Sexel
2024-06-05 22:18:37 +0000 UTCAlso in the first scene the hand is not just turning, it is acting as though it is interacting with an egg. First turns it around, then cradles it, then crushes it in the grasp.
Sam
2024-06-05 22:04:53 +0000 UTCThe Adam and Eve reading is very interesting. I also want to add, if you have seen Madoka Magica, or any magical girl anime, you won't be stranger to the concept; but there is, in many of these genres as well as Angel's Egg, a motif of "end of girlhood" as death. Kumiko Saito has written about it in an essay called "Magic, Shōjo , and Metamorphosis": womanhood as erasure of identity and a flattening into an image of a "mother" archetype can be seen in many of these animes. In magical girl animes it usually manifests as the loss of the magical power into the maturity, most of the time as a sacrifice for others. In madoka magica, every magical girl is doomed to turning into a witch, which is the monsters they fight throughout the entire show. The metamorphosis happens when the hope that fuels girlhood runs out. When I saw Angel's Egg, I thought of this. Especially in the death scene. Her behaviour is childish most of the time, too trusting of this man that eventually breaks into the egg as she is asleep in the pedestal. When she falls into the water, she has a kiss of death before she is fully submerged. When she is in the water, for the first time she is drawn with a mature body, caressing her hand across her body. She is drowning, but her reaction is orgasmic. This is a very weird motif that once you start seeing you cannot unsee in many japanese media. Loss of innocence and girlhood being equated to losing life and personality in some cases. It is puritanical in a non-american way, so I sometimes am not sure what to make of it.
Sam
2024-06-05 22:00:57 +0000 UTCHey now
Christopher E Musgrave
2024-06-05 21:13:15 +0000 UTCalso - Hesse said that Oshii only directed two live-action movies but he's made like 10+
Zach G
2024-06-05 21:09:53 +0000 UTCOther insane Aum Shinrikyo thing is the theory that they accidentally set off a low yield nuclear bomb in the Australian outback. I think trueanon mentioned it in an ep randomly.
brodie
2024-06-05 20:44:16 +0000 UTCDO SHREK YOU COWARDS
Smooth Shrek
2024-06-05 20:39:03 +0000 UTCThere's actually been some controversy over the statement that Oshii went to seminary, a Japanese user on twitter feels that it was a mistranslation because he never saw reference to it in any Japanese sources but sees it all over the place in English language ones: https://x.com/htGOIW/status/1604041254937202688
NLC
2024-06-05 20:25:48 +0000 UTCGotta send a big thank you to you guys - I've never so quickly become a fan of a director, but Oshii is dope as hell. I'm already planning on watching his other stuff, starting with the Red Spectacles + sequels
Zach G
2024-06-05 20:07:36 +0000 UTCI like both which is why I am now downloading the entire 1980s anime series like a true psycho
Zach G
2024-06-05 20:00:24 +0000 UTCFYI These are both on internet archive. (You can find other copies on there also if these aren't up to snuff) https://archive.org/download/angels-egg-1985-blu-ray-1080p-jap-audio/ https://archive.org/download/patlabor-2-the-movie-1993-original-dolby-stereo-mix
Zach G
2024-06-05 19:58:00 +0000 UTCThe first half was way too serious for Chapo.
NYCM&AHole
2024-06-05 19:27:24 +0000 UTCBeyond the fact that movies are one of the best things to podcast about, it’s really enjoyable to listen to the hosts talk about art that they sincerely like and find profound. It’s nice to hear their analytic skills be put to use by discussing artists who produce something important and insightful. A nice break from unpacking the endless churn of horrid, vapid opinion pieces and tweets.
emalco
2024-06-05 18:14:07 +0000 UTCAwesome episode! I love the angels egg segment. I thought that the terracotta army are people who have achieved nirvana or some similar faith based state. when we see the girl there with them I believe that we are meant to assume that her faith has been rewarded and she has been granted a place among the faithful. and considering that we saw statues reanimate in the movie she may have something resembling life in her future.
Porpoise
2024-06-05 17:56:01 +0000 UTCAngel egg is on YouTube. Zax solidarity
Zachariah Fyre
2024-06-05 17:47:03 +0000 UTCGreat stuff!
Miles_B
2024-06-05 17:17:24 +0000 UTCCan you guys point us to where you found these to view?
Zack Burke
2024-06-05 17:12:22 +0000 UTCpemis
Harper Big Spender Karabees
2024-06-05 16:50:52 +0000 UTCWell this is good news. https://deadline.com/2024/05/mamoru-oshii-4k-remastering-1985-animation-angels-egg-gebeka-international-cannes-1235910631/amp/
Samuel McGuire
2024-06-05 16:48:39 +0000 UTCcheck out the most recent Blank Check miniseries, they just did Satoshi Kon, it's good.
Chapo Trap House
2024-06-05 16:44:28 +0000 UTCIs Ghost in the Shell too mainstream for you fucking hipsters?
Evan Pitkin
2024-06-05 16:40:58 +0000 UTCBeen waiting for this one ever since it was announced
June K
2024-06-05 16:21:14 +0000 UTCOh hell yeah
The True Horror
2024-06-05 16:00:24 +0000 UTCYou can find an English sub of Angel’s Egg pretty reliably on YouTube. Patlabor 2 otoh is only intermittently available for streaming in any service YT or otherwise and looks like it’s only available on DVD rn
John Swan
2024-06-05 15:57:38 +0000 UTCSkill issue
John Swan
2024-06-05 15:51:49 +0000 UTCwhere can we watch these movies? i absolutely love movie mindset and look forward to every new episode. my only critique would be sharing with us, your adoring audience, where we might be able to stream said movies in each new ep. thanks team! please keep up the good work of re-enchanting life by adopting a movie mindset.
godheks
2024-06-05 15:48:54 +0000 UTCTalking about art is like dancing about architecture. -Thelonius Monk!
Lucas Kahn
2024-06-05 15:40:12 +0000 UTCFelix who?
Blank
2024-06-05 15:21:06 +0000 UTCthis is like one of those opinions that children form right after that phase of development where they try out having an individuality
etienne
2024-06-05 15:10:55 +0000 UTCWhy is everyone doing these movie podcasts now, who seriously gives a fuck about these movies
D
2024-06-05 14:45:48 +0000 UTCI’ve been living in Japan two years and counting and I’m still baffled by the political and cultural landscape caused by the 90s
JD Nonce
2024-06-05 14:30:25 +0000 UTCWeeb episode and Felix collab? Fuck Yeah!!!
Justin Racine
2024-06-05 14:28:06 +0000 UTCCrossover episode!
Michael B. Jordan B. Peterson
2024-06-05 14:24:42 +0000 UTCSeems like they're not streaming... To the torrents!
Asher
2024-06-05 14:06:57 +0000 UTCFelix watch 1994 anime film Pom Poko
Enoch
2024-06-05 13:47:51 +0000 UTCangels egg is so fucking pretentious and unwatchable. patlabor 2 goes crazy tho
waterbird
2024-06-05 13:29:05 +0000 UTCI am a true sicko who prefers Patlabor 1 to Patlabor 2. I respect the chilling martial law montage, the frustrated romantic tension between Shinobu and the bad guy, etc., but I much prefer the "goofy guys in serious trouble" tone of the first to the unleavened bleakness of the second.
Kyle Cassidy
2024-06-05 13:05:05 +0000 UTCSeason 3 needs to have a Felix Michael Haneke episode!
LandonVanBus
2024-06-05 12:32:04 +0000 UTCI had a fun experience watching Ghost in the Shell, i had seen it a while ago and had a great memory of it and great expectations and sat down to watch with a friend and by halfway the movie had sailed clean past my expectations, i was just astonished. clean 10/10 no notes
etienne
2024-06-05 12:09:00 +0000 UTCOMG-LFG
Joe
2024-06-05 12:05:16 +0000 UTCwhere can i watch these?
g$
2024-06-05 12:02:56 +0000 UTCOkay I can’t argue with Oshii. But next time should be Satoshi Kon.
Zach H.
2024-06-05 11:56:15 +0000 UTCmovie mindset :| movie mindset, Japan :D
corey krajewski
2024-06-05 11:37:34 +0000 UTCIf any of you see this, please, pass on my sincere appreciation for the steady stream of "slop" (content). I feel very satiated. Thank you.
Mr Tu Damn Quoque
2024-06-05 11:20:40 +0000 UTCThis is now the Grey Wolf Brigade - Haiiro Jin-Roh!
Rob
2024-06-05 11:20:38 +0000 UTCAmazing! I only found Angel's Egg last year, looking forward to watching Patlabor 2 for the first time.
Rob
2024-06-05 11:19:36 +0000 UTCMagnificent
Excelsis Caeli
2024-06-05 11:12:06 +0000 UTCAre you guys even evil bureaucratmaxing?
Spicy Peanut
2024-06-05 11:11:30 +0000 UTC
