Heretics of Dune Club Session II: Questions and Observations

I really liked how Odrade dealt with Sheana's cocky additude. Have you ever had to deal with someone who needed to be taken down a peg or two?

A few observations given the lengthy other comments: 1- I find the bit about Tuek noticing Sheeana's budding breast (she's a child) disturbing... like, there are less lecherous ways to talk about a child who just hit puberty 2- They actually mentioned the original Leto II killed by Sardaukar. What a continuity nod. 3- F in the chat for Kipuna indeed. If only she was mourned for more than her genetic material... Herbert is still obsessed with precocious children, training and sink-or-swim testing. Why haven't the Dune books (beyond the original I am guessing) been turned into a multivolume shonen manga at this point?

PJ B

This stuff make my brain dance around. The nuances of the Sheeana situation are fascinating. That in addition to a lot of other things. =)

Lucidmortal

During the first time I read Heretics I initially thought that Odrade and Sheeana were the “heretics” that were referred to in the title since they’re both outsiders and non-traditional in the orgs they’re apart of. However, in my second read I can’t help but notice that the actual heretics in the story seem to be the people who are part of the old establishment factions and trying to keep things as is as opposed to the rebel characters who are actually in positions of authority. For instance, Sheeana is clearly dropping some hot new takes on the priesthood’s scriptures and has perspectives that would’ve gotten people killed for blasphemy but she’s promoted to high priestess while Dromind who’s the historian and brings up rightful caution about the disruption Sheeana can bring is sentenced to death. Even Schwangyu is accused of betraying the bene gesserit for ultimately taking a conservative position about wanting to prevent another kwizatch haderach and maintain the BG’s current status. I find this interesting in that typically heretics are framed as the young new rebel who wants to change things up and not the senior establishment member trying to maintain the status quo. What do you think of this subversion of heresy? And who do you think are the “true” heretics of the story?

Hi Danika, this is JoeyqueerAF on Twitch: Herbert writes of Hydraulic Despotism (pg. 167): "central control of a essential energy such as water, electricity, fuel, medicines, melange...Obey the central controlling power or the energy is shut off and you die!" I was struck by its definition and how today we continue to deal with its socioeconomic implications. Herbert writes Heretics in 1987, fast forward over 30 years and hydraulic despotism is more a controlling force than ever. It is interesting that it is a socio economic and geo-political power in Herbert's future, but I wonder why humanity continues to get stuck and on these patterns of control? This chapter really resonated with me because of our current ecological crisis and how governments, companies and industries continue to engage in this "hydraulic despotism." What are your thoughts Danika? Even after Leto II's Golden Path humanity in the future continues to struggles with this, can it ever be escaped? Can humanity ever break free of this form of despotism?

Joe Burgos

No slowing down in part 2... Miles Teg continues to show himself to be the coolest male in the history of the known universe, giving a Reverend Mother a taste of her own manipulative medicing. I know Leto II forbate the training of Mentats, but he obviously knew that the BG were keeping it up despite that. I wonder if that means that all Mentats currently operating are under BG authority... Other questions occured to me in this section. First, in demonstrating to Miles that she is her daughter, Odrade mentions that she has unrestricted access to her memories. I don't recall ever reading anything like this before in Dune. Once a BG goes through the spice agony, I thought she could access all of her female ancestor's memories. Do the BG actually forbid some mothers to access certain memories, possibly to occlude certain top secrets regarding bloodines? If so, is does this just work on an honor system? The BG are so disciplined and loyal I can actually see that as an option. Second, I have to wonder about the Great Convention. The fact that IX freely distributes navigational computers clearly means that the prohibition against thinking machines is not enforced, but what about the prohibition against the use of atomics against humans? In the Post God Emperor landscape, it does not seem that the remains of the imperium are unified enough to be able to dependably maintain such an prohibition. Are the negotiating powers of the BG the only thing keeping people from nuking each other?