King Crimson: Discipline - Extended Play Lounge (Episode 28)
Added 2022-09-21 00:35:33 +0000 UTCIn this latest episode, we return to King Crimson for the third time in the Extended Play Lounge with their 1981 album Discipline. I previously listened to 'In the Court of the Crimson King' (Ep. 3) and 'Red' (Ep. 11).
I also previously dissected the title track in our Behind the Score series (Ep. 18).
For this album, I took time for an extended read-in, which did include score study. I refrained from listening to the recording until filming, but I was relatively familiar with the scores after several hours of study. The read-in paid off, as I was able to squeeze quite a bit out of this remarkable and dense music. I hope you enjoy this episode!
Unlisted Vimeo Link: https://vimeo.com/751902449/2d5add52a0
Comments
When I first heard Discipline and Frame by Frame, I had no idea that there were two guitars in the band; I figured it was one guitarist doing all this crazy stuff. Once I watched live versions, I could not believe it. Watching you break down those two songs is truly amazing.
MintedMD
2024-04-03 06:00:13 +0000 UTCThis was my first King Crimson album to buy. I immediately followed it up with Three of a Perfect Pair
Robert Thornton
2024-03-29 22:34:49 +0000 UTCWell done with analysing this extraordinary album...I've always really loved it, and it doesn't date- even Bill's use of electric drums. Have seen Crimson a few years back, sadly they didn't do anything from this period of the band- but their 3 drummers was absolutely stunning.
Ralph Darvill
2024-03-19 22:33:13 +0000 UTCDoug, please give the Phillip Glass Violin Concerto a try… The patterns and the melodies weave in and out of each other… and the second movement is absolutely sublime…
Steve Hartke
2023-09-22 08:07:55 +0000 UTCAn interesting and entertaining appraisal. Thank you. Always a mesmerising album in which The Sheltering Sky holds prime position for me.
George Davis-Stewart
2023-03-15 18:34:30 +0000 UTClarks tongue when? :D
braaap
2023-01-27 00:54:07 +0000 UTCive never seen the sheets to this, that was awesome. counting along to discipline is a lot of fun lol
braaap
2023-01-27 00:53:58 +0000 UTCNext time, please, Larks Tongues' in Aspic.
John Clark
2022-10-31 05:14:26 +0000 UTCNo
grnmntl
2022-10-21 03:38:19 +0000 UTCThanks for that link. One of my favorite bassists. He can do anything!
grnmntl
2022-10-21 03:35:09 +0000 UTCA little detail that wasn't mentioned in the discussion of the polyrhythms in "Indiscipline" is that while Fripp and Belew play in 15/8 and 12/8 respectively, from bar 17 Levin is doing *both* - 15/8 in the left hand and 12/8 in the right. (Thoughts of it being an overdub are put to bed by this live version: https://youtu.be/lnGD8RI0kGQ )
Joe O'Farrell
2022-10-12 20:01:01 +0000 UTCI found a lot of it very Talking Heads like Especially the Remain in Light album A fun listen thanks
Marc Dearn
2022-09-29 18:55:37 +0000 UTCThere was an episode of ABC's Fridays where they played Elephant Talk and Thela Hun Ginjeet and I remember being mesmerized and I never turned back. I saw them in '84 touring the Three of Perfect Pair album and live they were just incredible. The next year, while attending University of Illinois in Urbana/Champaign, (Adrian lived there at the time), I found out that they were rehearsing there prior to my arrival and one of my roommate's friends was in a record store rummaging around and he literally bumped into Robert Fripp. Adrian later formed a band called the Bears and they routinely played down there when I was in school and my friends and I would go to the second shows every appearance and would talk with Adrian before the start of our show. He was the nicest guy you could ever meet and to think that he played with Bowie, Zappa, Heads, Fripp it was amazing how down to earth he was. Oh, and the celtic knot is the perfect icon for the album cover, it visually represents what's happening in the music, especially in Discipline. Anyway, I loved this deep dive, I hope you dig into Beat and Three of Perfect Pair.
Greg Magsaysay
2022-09-28 02:13:09 +0000 UTCNot just hearing, but deeply listening to King Crimson, is one of the better reasons to join your Patreon. I had heretofore only deep knowledge of Red and earlier works, with only a passing familiarity of all that came after, except "Thela Hun Ginjeet", "One Time" and a few others here and there. But your guided tour of the music was delightful and informative. You abilities are most impressive and helpful to us laymen brothers. In defense of Reich und Glass, et. al. I would submit that one needs to watch it performed to appreciate the raga-like, life-like, growth of the works. I've met both, and they are nice chums. Steve a little more intense, and strangely Charles Boyer-looking up close. His personal advice to a composer was "Get it played." I saw Steve's "Music for 18 Musicians" at Sanders Theatre, and when it came to its ever-quieter conclusion, there was a full minute of perfect silence. Punctuated by a single clap, then ROAR. It was preternatural. Elegant. Sublime. Glass' "Satyagraha", which its rising Phrygian melody, is most hopeful and stuff like that. "I digress. Cough! My bad. Great great review. Every song was a masterpiece of the first water. ~db wondrous
MrWondrous David Beckwith
2022-09-26 17:44:39 +0000 UTCIs Beat and Three Of A Perfect Pair next?
Joseph Riordan
2022-09-26 08:14:20 +0000 UTCLarks' Tongues in Aspic next!
Max Eliaser
2022-09-26 04:28:52 +0000 UTCThat was really interesting. However, the whole way through, I couldn't help thinking that I'd rather be listening to Talking Heads.
Dave Brockis
2022-09-24 22:51:04 +0000 UTCSame. I started seeing them Live, onward, with their Beat Tour. I saw many a Famous Musician attend their Concerts in Berkeley. They were searing Hot. Super-Intense and Danceable. - Doug and Others here. Check out the very recent Marc Maron Interview with Adrian Belew. It will enthrall.
Michael Hernandez
2022-09-23 19:06:50 +0000 UTCI remember buying this album when it came out. It was definitely different from any KC (or anything really) that I had heard before. But I don't remember being overcome by its complexity. I just remember really liking it. In fact the song "Discipline", even given all it's complexity, is almost danceable after the drums come in. I did get to see the band on this tour. It was a like a completely new band. They only did maybe one or two old KC songs live. Nice work, Doug. Thanks for putting in the work. It's fascinating to follow along. I would also be interested in Doug's reaction to the more complex minimalist music. I'm thinking of the Phillip Glass operas. I personally love "Einstein On The Beach" but can understand how it might not be everyone's cup of tea.
Martin Broten
2022-09-22 19:36:15 +0000 UTCjust watched your latest Metal Monday - Mastodon. loved it. elephant in the room... (elephant talk)... Metal Monday Meshuggah?
ax o'lotl
2022-09-22 08:43:08 +0000 UTCre: future EPLs... I'd second a vote for The Power To Believe... it's unlike anything else. I'd also vote for The Construkction of Light. it just amazes me that a band could be this long-lived and still stay edgy... I also saw several shows of the latest lineup with 3 drummers. old guys bringing massive intensity. from 1969 to present. mind-blowing. unpopular EPL suggestion... Robert Fripp's solo album Exposure? one of the strangest albums I've ever heard and one of my ATFs.
ax o'lotl
2022-09-22 08:24:48 +0000 UTCdamn, that was fun... thank you!! I was at the penultimate live show of this incarnation of Crimson at the Greek Theater Berkeley. I dragged several friends to the show and they were blown away.
ax o'lotl
2022-09-22 08:15:49 +0000 UTCDoug, thank you for this break down an reaction. I bought Discipline when it came out, already owning all previous KC albums. It blew me away. It was more than progressive, it was completely new. I had the opportunity to see them live twice ad they really pulled it off on the stage. I found their next two albums a bit disappointing. They are in the same style, have a few highlights but not the coherent freshness of Discipline. Having said that: my choice for future KC EPL’s would be Thrak and their last studio album: The Power To Believe, a true masterpiece imo.
Frits van Voorst
2022-09-22 07:24:42 +0000 UTCI know many Yes fans won't agree, but Yes lost their magic when Bill left after Close To The Edge.
DJ Marquis Marc Rambeau du Tacoma
2022-09-21 19:52:58 +0000 UTCThank you so much, Doug! That was one of my favourite breakdowns, ever. Let's nominate it for the 'Doug of the year' award ... :-) ... So wonderfull you've used the scores, showing us how they pieced the songs together. I now have even more respect for the album.
Ewald Bal
2022-09-21 19:18:14 +0000 UTCDoug, I was wondering why you think that KC was a minimalist-inspired band? "Minimalism" is not a word I associate with them, but I confess that my formal musical education finished at 1970 with Stockhausen's work up to that point (which I didn't appreciate but it did turn me on to krautrock).
Chris Ramsbottom
2022-09-21 18:56:19 +0000 UTCI am a big fan of Steve Reich, and I know that they got some inspiration from him at the time ♥♥
Denis Perron
2022-09-21 18:47:47 +0000 UTCGreat job Doug! I had the pleasure of seeing this incarnation of KK back in the 80's and they pull the complexity off live perfectly and remember Adrian is acting as a rock band front man at the same time with the professor sitting in his chair ... left me speechless ...
Stop Propaganda
2022-09-21 16:12:37 +0000 UTCBig Muff - classic fuzz pedal: https://www.ehx.com/products/big-muff-pi/ Flanger - another pedal, a type of phase shifting of duplicate tracks relative to one another. Sound is usually described as a "swooshing" or jet engine: https://www.masterclass.com/articles/guitar-101-what-are-flangers-and-phasers-learn-about-the-best-flanger-and-phaser-pedals-for-electric-guitar-players
David Marshall
2022-09-21 13:22:59 +0000 UTCFripp has stated that he finds Steve Reich kinda boring too. He has said that he would find it more interesting if he got to solo over the top of it.
Craig Ward
2022-09-21 11:07:00 +0000 UTCThe lyrics for Frame by Frame are Adrian's reaction to what he perceived as Fripp's over-analytic approach to music making.
Craig Ward
2022-09-21 11:02:26 +0000 UTCThe weird sweeping, diving sounds in Sheltering Sky are made with guitar synthesizers. They were pioneers of those. The percussion instrument in the same is a slit drum, played with a mallet. Bruford reports the one he used was little more than a toy, found in a thrift store in LA.
Craig Ward
2022-09-21 10:55:56 +0000 UTCAwesome. Just awesome, my joint favourite album of King Crimson along with Red. Thanks Doug your unique voice on this is great.
Dave waterford
2022-09-21 07:18:16 +0000 UTC"This is strange." Yep. That's King Crimson.
Blinky
2022-09-21 05:28:39 +0000 UTCExcellent. One of my favorite albums, and now maybe my favorite of the Doug videos I have watched. It was worth the wait.
BRIAN MILLER
2022-09-21 04:16:28 +0000 UTCDoug this was a fantastic EPL due to your enthusiasm over the composition and performance of the music. I've loved KC since "In the Court..." and you've just added to my appreciation for all their music. But what I really wanted to add here is something you'll very much appreciate and I'm going to steal a few paragraphs from Wiki. "Renowned drummer and co-founder of progressive rock band Yes, Dr Bill Bruford is also an alumnus of the University of Surrey having gained his PhD in Music in 2016 after retiring from public performance in 2009. Bill is now an academic author, writing journal articles, book chapters and books, in between lectures at academic institutions in Europe and North America... So you see he didn't just play drums (actually he's a percussionist) with expertise and mastery he earned a doctorate in music, became a teacher and author about music. I just thought you'd appreciate that bit of info. Lastly you should know after getting tired of being in other bands (Bill's words "I grew tired of being a hired hand" ) he formed his own band called Bill Bruford's Earthworks. They made several very well-respected albums in the jazz and jazz/fusion genres. Keep up the great work and from now on it's Dr. Bill Bruford :-)
Ron Swirson
2022-09-21 03:49:56 +0000 UTCAlso though I do think this is the best KC record. Agree w you wholeheartedly about its compositional mastery. Unique in all the world!
Gary Thobaben
2022-09-21 03:30:09 +0000 UTCYour comment about Steve Reich bummed me out a bit (to each their own though)- I think King Crimson is like Bela Bartok + Steve Reich + distortion. In fact, on this record those 7/8 vs 3/4 guitar parts are I think an obvious wink to Reich’s phase pieces.
Gary Thobaben
2022-09-21 03:17:14 +0000 UTC10 Tons of King Crimson, absolute pioneers! Thanks Doug!
Anthony Taylor
2022-09-21 02:15:12 +0000 UTCLike most prog but especially this one, you need to take in the details but then sit back and take in the gestalt . Repeat listens are so rewarding.
grnmntl
2022-09-21 02:08:44 +0000 UTCYou cannot recreate the impact of this album when it was released... so unique - unlike anything that came before, including the King Crimson catalog. This was really mind blowing at the time.
Christopher Arters (relative timeworx - Mr.A)
2022-09-21 01:02:47 +0000 UTCBig Muff = legendary distortion pedal Medium Flange = modulation effect
Christopher Arters (relative timeworx - Mr.A)
2022-09-21 00:57:51 +0000 UTC
