PATREON EXCLUSIVE: Do Women Care More About The Approval Of Men Or Other Women?

I only just got round to watching this, a bit late to the party... I think that it relates to a video you made about a pyramid for men and self-actualization (I can't remember exactly what it was called) but I think at the base for security you need friends, bonds, and validation from the same gender and then after that, you want the validation of the other gender.

Alisha

I think that competition equates to hierarchy. Which tends to happen amongst the same gender. What happens later on is once men for example figure out where they stand, women will take note of that and take it into consideration when making a choice.

Another valid point towards generalization!

Ashwin Srinivas

I think the tribal evolution model is always important to remember, but I don't think it paints enough of a picture to really describe modern motivations and why people do the (often crazy) things they do. I think if you want to describe people who could be thought to have some level of positive self-esteem, you could almost exclusively rely on evolution to describe why people act the way they do. The problem is: almost every modern person has abysmally poor self-esteem. In fact, I think you could accurately say that reclaiming and magnifying self-esteem *is* the purpose of modern life. I think you could also accurately say that most modern people are failing, especially since the Internet age. People with poor self-esteem act a lot more like drug addicts when it comes to motivation. Whereas a "normal" person would consider how well they stack up against their peers, what in this discussion we might consider "healthy competition". The esteem addict considers what might make them feel better right now. They hurt all the time and they can only, from their skewed belief perspective, feel better by get sexual validation (and lots of it). Why modern people find themselves with horrible self-esteem and what can be done to fix it are outside the scope of this video, but I think it's worth pointing out that people who diverge from the standard pattern largely do so because of morbidity of self-esteem rather than extreme individualism. Thus, it should be seen as a red flag most of the time. It is always appropriate to judge your worth via quality comparison of yourself to your peers in whatever endeavor. That is useful. That leads to discipline, experimentation and progress. It is never appropriate to judge your worth via quantity comparison. That is illusory. That leads to deception, manipulation (and theft) and stagnation (in materialism). Sadly "quantity" is the zeitgeist of our times. This is exactly what we're going to need to change if we're going to evolve again.

Nah not really. Attention itself can be way of competition. Social media addictions do prove this.

Ignas

This video is spot on, I've thought about this myself from time to time. If you are judged on a quality X by a person Y, then your subjective view of that same quality X in person Y is directly correlated to the value you place on the judgment you received. The musician example is a perfect representation of this, but I think it can be applied to superficial qualities as well. Say for instance someone says that you're handsome, the value you place on that particular judgment will correlate to how handsome the person who uttered it is (according to you).

Rickard Fors

I agree with this as a generalization. However, I fall into the category of being one of the weird ones. For me it’s less about approval from a “gender” and more about approval from people I consider to be intellectually equal or superior. Unfortunately, outside of the upper levels of the workplace, I find very few women who fit that bill so I stopped caring what they thought long, long ago. That said, if I had more respect for women’s intelligence and behavior on the whole - I can see this applying to me as well. And of course, my husband’s approval is hands down the most important (outside of my own).

Hello Alexander. I agree with the previous comment and think your analysis is indeed sound. A man's place in the male pecking order has big implications for mate-hunting success. Therefore, most men are keen to move up that pecking order. This naturally requires that other men acknowledge his confidence and competencies. If a man can not attract that kind of recognition, he can not advance his place in the male hierarchy. I think you make that point very well as a primary reason for men placing most significance on the admiration of other men - particularly those he is in direct association with. I also resonate with the mention in the previous comment about male musicians as I was the bassist in a commercial band for 7 years. I never gave a rip about what non-musicians thought concerning the technical aspects of playing my instrument, but I sure cared a lot about what more accomplished musicians thought. Instinctively, I knew if I could attract their admiration and respect it would contribute to my status in the eyes of attractive females.

This is a good analysis founded on empathy. It's true that we would seek approval of the people who went through the same motions as us. This generalizes well to neighbours caring more about each other's opinion or the opinion of a foreigner might matter less to you than that of a compatriot. And the professions too of course, as AG mentioned, atheletes care what other atheletes think more than someone who isn't doing what they're doing. This way, I think we can establish a heirarchy of "caring for approval" in that the closest gender in the same "category" as you would take the top spot, followed my the opposite gender and so on. For example, a male musician would care about the approval of another male musician and then next in line would be a female musician. He would care less about the approval of another male who is not a musician and then comes a simimlar female. Of course, I understand that this example is kind of narrow but I am trying to point to how AG's main foundation can generalize. But all in all, this was a very good analysis.

Ashwin Srinivas