Kya Yahi Pyar Hai | Rocky | Sanjay Dutt, Reena Roy | REACTION!!
Added 2023-06-05 23:29:09 +0000 UTC
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And I see your perspective too 👍🙏 do I agree with it? May be not fully but I do not feel competant enough to put forth anything more on it .. I know every nation fails it citizens. On a daily basis. No nation is perfect .. even US- arguably most powerful nation. Do people here think the same way about their anthem? I wonder.. I agree, movie hall is not a place may be to show respect for National anthem but it will not bother me to stand up. I feel its ingrained in me. I have a lot more to value that the country has given me than not. Judging others was not even a criteria of discussion so I will leave it. It was good to have a discussion with you!
Reva
2023-06-07 21:16:12 +0000 UTCRevati, I heard you from the beginning, I see your perspective and I also heard the perspective shared in the video, my responses have been in response to the opinions shared.. I find myself unable to agree with them, therefore I chose to put forth my thoughts on the issue and the perspectives in the video. Peace!
MayaR
2023-06-07 21:00:11 +0000 UTC@Maya - thank you Maya! Yesterday after I saw the video, I asked my husband the same question- we were on our evening walk and his response was similar that it is about choice. Patriotism cannot be forced. I understand his opinion. We go home.. we watch the video.. it gives him a perspective .. a different point of view other than his own. Thats it! I do not see anybody valuing Sadhguru words here. Which is ok. To each his own. But atleast for the sake of discussion , if we are open to another point of view- you hear the other side. If that perspective is not even heard, what is the point of discussing it. Sadhguru in the video gives his perspective on every point raised here. But I am not him and cannot write it all down here. Hence from my side, I do not want to indulge further.
Reva
2023-06-07 20:45:08 +0000 UTCSorry about this long response, When you say ‘functioning in a society is about humanity’... I seriously wish there were more people who are like you and think of humanity when they are talking about groups and people who are different from them.. the practice of identifying with a nation is filled with an individual’s experiences within the context of that nation and experiences with people who insist on drawing borders between sameness and difference.. and question their citizenship and belonging to the nation in question. Also, if the government is chosen by us in a truly democratic way.. then why are there governmental policies that are in place now to dehumanize groups of people and structurally prevent access to basic human rights? Yes, India is democratic as in, everyone has the right to vote but this doesn’t mean everyone has a voice in how policies are created and enacted. For example: Everyday I see troubling news about educational policy changes that are aimed at creating inequalities in the lives and increasing the divide between the haves and have-nots. Policies that attempt to enforce Hindi as a national language and other such civil liberties. Honestly, I don’t want to get into an in-depth conversation by listing a number of ways our government has been implicitly involved in preventing groups of people from accessing the same rights and privileges others enjoy in our country. My initial response to the question about mandatory participation ( not just a government mandate but also groups of people policing people in such spaces to participate in acknowledging the national anthem) in the national anthem was about the idea of Choice.. and how choice is far more crucial to a democratic society than standing up and acknowledging a symbol of a nation. Interestingly as I am writing this response I am reminded of a quote by Oscar Wilde “A red rose is not selfish because it wants to be a red rose. It would be horribly selfish if it wanted all the other flowers in the garden to be both red and roses”. Not saying you are being selfish.. but the quote resonates with this conversation which centers the idea just coz you want to stand for the national anthem, it might not be a big deal for you to stand for 52 seconds, but not everyone is like you and you can’t judge them for making their own choices… Finally, I am not even going to speak to Sadhguru, but all I want to say is that if @API doesn’t want to watch the video because they have made the decision not to, this decision doesn’t invalidate their stance and opinions pertaining to our discussion here and we cannot dismiss their contributions to this conversation. Just some thoughts albeit long..
MayaR
2023-06-07 20:08:53 +0000 UTCThat was very well put Maya....patriotism though a collective emotion still it also has personal experience impact on it. A movie theater where i am going to watch a serial killer killing women what place does National Anthem have there ....i guess for some it is display of their love and loyalty for their country when one has never been in an adverse situation or lead an oppressed life or systemically illtreated they can afford to feel all pride and joy ! ....Sadhguru 's speech is something i wouldnt even give a minute of my life and no it isnt just about what i read about him but its about what he says be it him or any such gurus i just cant bear to listen to them .. that is not for me.. all the good things and bad things that has happened in my life is because of my decisions and not coz some guru's precious teaching and i am very much ok with it... but i guess for some or may be many it helps...
ThiruWilliams
2023-06-07 19:58:40 +0000 UTCOk :) The discussion is futile because you refuse to even look at basis it started with. You have preconceived notions. I don’t. I am a fence sitter atleast in this case. I dont believe on random theories online that has no basis. My experience with Sadhguru and Yoga are first hand.. so random articles on the internet is not going to change my mind. Never mind. It was a discussion. Clearly, atleast on patreon looks like I am swimming opposite the tide.. It’s Unfortunate..
Reva
2023-06-07 19:26:41 +0000 UTCYou clearly also have your mind set on one point of view , so can’t say you’re very open minded either. Like I said before, I have and will not watch a sadhguru vid, it takes little effort on your part to read on his controversial and problematic background. And it’s clear from the others who wrote back to you or liked opposite comments that’s there’s many who also don’t agree with you. And it’s easy to say the things you’re saying when you’ve lived a life that was sheltered from the issues the government has put upon particular groups in India. To those people, a national anthem evokes sadness and anger or both.
Api
2023-06-07 18:51:17 +0000 UTC@Api-When you think of the national Anthem as just a one min song, you reduce its value, the emotion it evokes and the purpose of it. Similarly you can reduce a flag to a piece of cloth or piece of paper. The question is not about judgement. The question is of respect, an emotion to be a part of a nation, to have pride in being an Indian. The world is not ideal unfortunately. Thats why these symbols, tools are necessary to evoke an emotion. Anyway you have not watched the video.. or be openminded to somebody else’s point of view and made a prejudiced opinion on Sadhguru . So, the discussion is futile.
Reva
2023-06-07 18:24:01 +0000 UTCI’m not sure what you’re confused about. We didn’t say we would never stand. We’re saying standing can be appropriate in certain situations, but not every single waking moment of our life. Somewhere as insignificant as a movie theatre is not a place where people should be expected to stand. And there’s others ways to identify with a nation other than standing for a minute long song, just saying. Likewise I wouldn’t judge someone who doesn’t want to stand for the national anthem. They might have had a long and difficult history with a nation and wish not to stand.
Api
2023-06-07 18:03:09 +0000 UTCExactly! Its not about being forced..it is not about one’s individual romance with the country.. It is about humanity.. why does anyone follow rules, is chivalrous, is polite, has morals?, how does one function in a society? How do you identify with a nation? People who are “liking” the opposite point of view, would you not stand for your country , for 52 seconds.. ever? This whole debate reminds me of Madhavan’s dialog from Rang de Basanti.. Everybody makes the society as a whole. Democracy is not separate. We all make it. Govt is elected by us, part of us. If there are no borders, and world lives together as a one globe, yes then we dont need any identifiers.. Anyway Supreme court has removed the mandate of playing the national anthem at the movies. It was officially mandatory for around 2-3 years only..
Reva
2023-06-07 16:15:17 +0000 UTCYes, I am saying our individual relationship with the national anthem and the Indian flag should not be judged by others. We shouldn’t be forced to stand up and sing the national anthem, everybody is free to do what they want.. it’s their choice..
MayaR
2023-06-07 15:06:41 +0000 UTC@Maya Redson, I am trying to understand your point. Are you saying that we should not judge people by he is like or disliking , expressing or not expressing any kind of gesture towards national anthem, or national flag.. it is individual choice that one can respect nation or see the way they want? is my understanding right?
Ketan Bhagwat
2023-06-07 05:41:54 +0000 UTCIt is about choice. I understand your perspective. There are incidents that shape your opinion. People leave familiy alliances and go. Forget political or national alliance. I agree to Sadhguru when he says Nationalism or Patriotism will come down drastically when it is a completely successful nation. In day to day life, where are the opportunities to stand for a national anthem anyway. Its not about judging others either. Its about how you feel in the end for your country. Dr.Ambedkar was part of the most oppressed of the societal structure of India, and he wrote the constitution. Dr APJ belonged to minority as well, he was the most beloved scientist and President of the country. Our country is very diverse culturally, linguistically, class, creed etc. To bring them all together to be called a nation requires some symbols, words. How does one feel to be part of a nation if you do not respect it in any form? How can one be a part of a society? These are genuine questions in my head. Mandatory or not, it simply feels out of question in my head. But truly understand your point of view. I have huge issues with gun laws in the US. I can only hope the country I am living in today gets some sense and does something about it.
Reva
2023-06-07 01:08:32 +0000 UTCThank you for your explanation, however I have to push back on your statement regarding national anthem and political stances being two different things.. the national anthem is a symbol of citizenship and belonging. It’s a signal that calls upon citizens to pledge allegiance to the concept of India and every thing she stands for.. Therefore the symbol is absolutely political.. Also, your reflection of your belonging and the rich life your forefathers made possible for you.. so therefore you must absolutely stand for the anthem. However, there are many who have been silenced and their histories have been erased by political decisions made under the symbolic flag. These people might not want to stand and salute the very symbol of their oppression.. and therefore it should be their choice.. Finally your example of when and where you stood up and the national anthem is exactly my point, you did it in school.. not in a place unrelated to displays of national pride.. movie theaters ( the explanation given in the video about the reasoning for choosing a theatre is hollow at best).. in the end of the day it’s about if Choices.. we are a democracy and we shouldn’t be coerced or judged for not standing… just some thoughts..
MayaR
2023-06-07 00:33:31 +0000 UTC@Api- please watch the video if you will.. You might find some answers. If you do not wish to, your prerogative. When I watched the video, I went in with the mindset as to why is it even a question. If you are curious as to why during the movies, or inspite of the country that fails you at multiple occasions,the video might answer it for you. If one values experience, there is possibilty of perspective other than that of our own.
Reva
2023-06-07 00:16:42 +0000 UTCstanding for the national anthem at the movies is unnecessary and is certainly not a reflection of whether someone is a true Indian or not (also applies to any country for that matter) 🤦🏽♀️. For any country’s anthem there is a time and a place for where it is certainly appropriate to play. If you’re making people stand for the anthem whenever and where ever like just going to the movies you’re just wasting people’s time, a line needs to be drawn on where you make people stand. Might as well have people stand for the national anthem before shopping at the grocery store at that point 🤦🏽♀️ And actually national anthem and political stance are related. It is a way of protesting when governments implement policies or act in ways that don’t align with the citizens’ values. I live in Canada and I can be grateful for the life this country has given me but still criticize when I see injustice being done by the government or police to minority groups. I’m not going to blindly stand for the anthem whenever it it plays. There’s a time and a place for it.
Api
2023-06-07 00:06:17 +0000 UTCNational anthem and political stance are two different aspects. I will stand for the national anthem, where my forefathers belonged, we had a life and all that it gave me. I am grateful in that respect. I am not jingoistic, i am not brave enough to fight the borders, but I value my country-matrubhumi Motherland. Its the least I can do .. Since being a kid we did it.. we said the pledge- in english, hindi, Marathi. We sang the national anthem in the morning and vande Mataram in the emd of school. And it was a Convent school, built by the Portuguese , run by Sisters of the Convent.. Thats the beauty of India.. The fact that its even a question as to why I need to stand for National Anthem truly boggles my mind.
Reva
2023-06-06 23:46:09 +0000 UTCWhat are your thoughts on the national anthem at the movies? Do you think movie goers should stand during the anthem regardless of their political stance? PS I have lived outside of India in 3 countries my whole adult life and am an Indian citizen..
MayaR
2023-06-06 23:28:13 +0000 UTC@Maya- i am not sure if they would even select this video for viewing ? I have no control on that. Its a suggestion. @AD - i did Inner engineering here in the US.. More than half of work is done by volunteers. And with a smile. Anyway, not here to promote anything.
Reva
2023-06-06 23:19:15 +0000 UTC@maya- I do watch a lot of his videos. I do believe in most of what he says. I have come out of some really tough times because of Inner Engineering. Only if you truly understand and experience what he has to say, one can appreciate a point of view. There are few people i revere - Sudha Murty is one of them, and one is Sadhguru. There are a few more but for some other thread. After some life experiences, I have learnt to take every fact/opinion with a pinch of salt. Having stayed in 2 countries now for major parts of my life, I have learnt to appreciate what My roots are and how extremely lucky I am to be born in India. If I hear the National anthem of my country play, I will stand for it. Or for any other country for that matter that evokes similar respect in me.
Reva
2023-06-06 23:12:02 +0000 UTCHave you seen many of his videos where he discusses issues that are opinions but couched in fancy language to sound like facts
MayaR
2023-06-06 22:55:38 +0000 UTCHonestly I don’t think Korbin minds us having a constructive conversation on here, we can discuss it on the Patreon community space if you insist on not discussing it where we are…
MayaR
2023-06-06 22:54:22 +0000 UTCWhat is pseudoscience and what is propoganda?
Reva
2023-06-06 22:48:25 +0000 UTCI didnt want to discuss it on patreon unless the parties involved are part of discussion. If this was a facebook group, I would have. This was a video suggestion comment. Did not want to start a thread here
Reva
2023-06-06 22:47:01 +0000 UTCThere's a huge chunk of what he says that makes sense - but I realised that's only because he has reproduced our collective heritage ie. Indian philosophy (and rehashed it into a viable commercial business model). And then, there's the pseudoscience and the propaganda... so... Ultimately, I wouldn't vouch for his integrity, no.
Par
2023-06-06 22:35:37 +0000 UTCI’m not maya but just like any speeches trump makes, I’m not going to go out of my way to hear out what sadhguru says🤷♀️ read up on his past statements .. he has no credibility whatsoever.. promoting pseudoscience and making other dangerous remarks
Api
2023-06-06 21:42:43 +0000 UTCYes.. I did sit through the half hour video, I rarely share my opinion without watching the content being discussed.. so you want Korbin and Rick to watch this before we discuss it? Just curious as to why we can’t have this conversation without their reaction? Also how sure are you that they will sit through over half an hour of this highly contextualized video?
MayaR
2023-06-06 21:41:50 +0000 UTCDid you see the video? Lets discuss this when and if they see the video.it might be more fruitful..
Reva
2023-06-06 21:35:41 +0000 UTCI don't think people (including myself) have a problem with the playing of the national anthem in the movie theatre but I do question the reasoning behind the choice to play it in a movie theater. However, I have an issue with people making standing up and pledging allegiance mandatory. When something is made mandatory, you are taking away a person's agency in making their own decisions about displaying allegiance when they have issues with how government policies are stacked against minoritized individuals. There are days I am not proud to be an Indian citizen when I see how government policies are put in place to dehumanize individuals based on their differences. I have heard stories of people being harassed for not standing up during the national anthem in Bombay and Bangalore, so I am just saying it should be my CHOICE (a key tenet of democracy) to participate in the national anthem, and I am not sure if the movie theater is space for this practice. Also, Sadhguru is not someone I would call a pillar of common sense and his speeches tend to skew towards propaganda, but that is a conversation for another day.
MayaR
2023-06-06 20:42:43 +0000 UTCBtw, the lady in this video is Tina Munim not Reena Roy. l love this song and so glad I only listened to it and do not remember the video at all. It took a lot movies to make Sanjay Dutt a good actor. Also, this film released in 1981, long long before the 90s.
Kiru
2023-06-06 19:15:27 +0000 UTCLove this video!
AshQueen
2023-06-06 18:16:41 +0000 UTCNot related to this discussion or song at all- But a video suggestion.. Sadhguru is at a college answering questions of the youth of the nation. This question is regarding why someone has to stand for the National anthem when it is played. It is a very interesting discussion.. makes me worried about how the youth of the nation is thinking. I do not know what your demographic is but this will be wonderful as a debate/discussion. Why national anthem being played before a movie is also seen as a problem by many? Sadhguru gives answers to them i. That respect- Worth a watch! https://youtu.be/lW8HQYg9-Hk
Reva
2023-06-06 17:48:11 +0000 UTC
