BONUS EPISODE: An Interview with Cult Expert Dr. Christine
Added 2021-06-28 04:20:20 +0000 UTCYou can also listen on Apple, Spotify, or anywhere else you enjoy your podcasts, but here is a nearly 2-hour BONUS interview AD-FREE for our Patreon supporters.
Dr. Christine is the founder of Voices for Dignity, a non-profit in Hildale, Utah that helps survivors of trafficking, coercive control, and oppression. Dr. Christine and Lauren will explore some of the founding beliefs of Mormonism to provide a picture of how off-shoot cults among believing members of the LDS church can transpire and evolve. Dr. Christine also shares her courageous personal story of survival, trafficking, and transformation. Join us tonight for a unique dinner conversation about LDS cults with a cult expert who shares her very personal and instructive story relevant to the Daybell case.
Comments
Hey- Coming to this from NZ ages after the fact- but I would like to know why Dr. Christine converted at 18? I Have a friend who did the same, a man. He is now ex-communicated but is a UFO follower. Not discounting, but I have to conflate the magical thinking.
Yvonne Bennett
2023-08-20 07:34:27 +0000 UTC" It is the use of power, control, and manipulation to subjugate a victim" Don't some parents do this? Exactly what I meant. Thank you btw for all this information. I think in the psychology this is called the Authoritarian parent type. @Amber Ferdig, Was curious if you had an opinion on my reply? Did I misunderstand something? So, in other words, the parent is a well-meaning parent feeling that Authoritarian-style parenting is the best way to raise their child, but the parent actually commits a crime, but is not prosecuted, because of secrecy in the family unit. Ultimately, I'm sure Dr John would agree, the adult version of the child raised in this fashion has the characteristics and furthermore commits them on their child, the cycle of abuse continues. The freedom that America gives parents to raise their children any way they see fit, in my opinion is criminal in the long run. anyway i'd love to hear doctor john's opinion on this
Lori Shillenn (Speakman)
2021-07-03 19:50:48 +0000 UTCSuch a brave and truly powerful woman, to survive what she went though to learn and grow and then help others, WoW. Thank you once more for all you and Dr. John do to bring enlightenment to us.
Robin M Putnam
2021-07-01 04:08:24 +0000 UTCChristine is a Saint.💜 What a resilient woman! I’m a better woman for listening to her story. I’m sad and sorry for the injustices committed against her. She will make me look twice at people on the street, to feel if they have needs like she said she did, at one point in her life. I’m thrilled with where she is now, the work that she is doing that gives her suffering meaning and also that she is with her Turkish Prince. Thanks for interviewing her Lauren. And thanks Dr. John for watching Banks.
ShaRee
2021-06-30 04:46:42 +0000 UTCWow! Such an insightful and revealing interview. Thank you.
Lisa Ish Galindo
2021-06-30 00:07:36 +0000 UTCThank you for this interview, so fascinating, I also very much appreciated Christine’s approach to persuasion and her take on humiliation. This is so relevant to public health right now and it was great to hear a thoughtful take.
Joanna Mulvaney
2021-06-29 19:32:23 +0000 UTCThe information on ‘priming’ at the end is key. The religious ‘priming’ of young minds occurs years before the apostasy or fraud occurs.
Lynnette coster
2021-06-29 17:21:06 +0000 UTCThis was a wonderful interview. I always learn something & or I can get inspired. Thank you
Marcella Able
2021-06-29 17:13:38 +0000 UTCLori Shillenn- No not in the sense you describe because "well-meaning but ill-informed" is not corecieve control. Corecieve control is more insidious- there is no well-meaning corecieve control. It is the use of power, control, and manipulation to subjugate a victim. It includes things like isolating a victim from family and friends, taking control of finances, controlling every aspect of daily life where and when victim can leave the house for example. The idea is to own the victim, so they are compliment to the abuser. Victims often described losing their sense of self. I did a bit more reading and found that they have brought the idea of corecieve control into a few domestic abuse laws in US, specifically California, Hawaii, and Connecticut( I think still being passed in CT), very recently where corecieve control is now seen as domestic abuse. Which is good-it means don't have to be physical violence to say it's domestic abuse. This not only protects the victim, but the children too. Because children are also victims of domestic abuse. Whether it be directed at them or witnesses to it. Coercive Control in a relationship is a strong indicator of potential future violence and murder. And that can be violence and murder directed toward the children also. Of course the psychological impact can't be overstated. Almost exclusively it is men who are the perpetrators and women who are the victims. https://disruptr.deakin.edu.au/society/coercive-control-is-a-key-part-of-domestic-violence-so-why-isnt-it-a-crime-across-australia/ https://speakoutloud.net/intimate-partner-abuse/why-do-men-use-coercive-control/uk-legislation
Amber Ferdig
2021-06-29 16:37:52 +0000 UTCAll the more proof that patriarchal religious structures are dangerous.
Lynnette coster
2021-06-29 16:32:59 +0000 UTCThis is a riveting interview. Thank you Lauren and Christine…
Lynnette coster
2021-06-29 16:32:24 +0000 UTCI didn't know about those laws about coercive control, and I'm very curious to know if these laws protect children from well-meaning, but ill-informed parents.
Lori Shillenn (Speakman)
2021-06-29 09:02:54 +0000 UTCAmazing, amazing interview
Monica
2021-06-29 03:34:00 +0000 UTCWow Just wow
Beth
2021-06-29 01:20:32 +0000 UTC~ We are all on out own path ~ However individuals who buy into the dogma and indoctrination required for organized monotheistic religion are prime targets for predators. As someone highly educated who has traveled and studied other world cultures and religions; it is flabbergasting to witness the ethnocentrism involved. Individuals who accept that out of 9 billion people on the planet; only their group has a handle on the "truth." Religious dogma and indoctrination are tools of oppression through mind control.
Madeline Mahajan
2021-06-28 22:49:13 +0000 UTCLauren, thanks for your honesty in admitting your occasional snarky-ness. I appreciate that and I'll also admit to doing the same from time to time. It's not truly how I feel, after I check myself. I always go back to a place of compassion, because all human's deserve it. For me, I think it comes from my upbringing. Old habits die hard. Also, humor does help in certain situations. Living a life in recovery, for me, includes promptly admitting my mistakes, making amends sincerely, asking for forgiveness (being aware that the other party might not be ready to do that), and finally, doing better next time..."Doing the next right thing" is the saying. Twelve-step program principles and steps, and the step-working guide books are great tools for any human, from any belief-system to help make life better, simple and peaceful. Thanks again, for what you do.
Lori Shillenn (Speakman)
2021-06-28 20:56:59 +0000 UTCVery true! Thanks for sharing you're experience. Ditto.. I was almost 18, he was 9yrs older. I had 2 kids with him and CAREFULLY left and went back to my mom's after 9 yrs (not the best environment to escape to, since that's where I was 'molded' into the type of person who was a target for predator-types). The first thing he did was manage to isolate me from my best friend, gradually ended up physically abusing toward the end. I'm 57 now and much healthier, partly due to women like you all who share with us all. I'm thankful to Dr. Christine for sharing her story, and to Lauren for arranging and doing the interview.
Lori Shillenn (Speakman)
2021-06-28 17:11:24 +0000 UTCWow! Thank you for sharing a small bit of what happened to you. It is true you don't need religion to control and manipulate someone. Predators are master actors. ... I know that Christine's abuser had a fascination with Mark Hoffman, and wanted to be like him.
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-06-28 16:33:21 +0000 UTCWow, what a great comment! I didn't know that about the coercive control laws in the UK, but it's true that there needs to be more done to hold people like this man accountable. He continues to manipulate and deceive people today.
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-06-28 16:31:53 +0000 UTCI like how you described this--that while Dr Christine is also helping me understand the things I just can't understand, and it does help my insight, it doesn't elicit complete empathy from me either, and that isn't the point of this episode, so thank you for sharing what you've been processing while listening to Dr. Christine's story. They are similar to my take-aways
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-06-28 16:26:08 +0000 UTCI like your thoughts on the devil comment. I'll always wonder if Lori had doubts, but I really don't know. ... I do think many religious people can stay in bad marriages if they believe God told them it was their person, or it was meant to be, or destined.
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-06-28 16:21:49 +0000 UTCThank you for listening Alison! I had no words either the first time I heard her story. It's quite a bit to process.
Lauren and John Matthias
2021-06-28 16:19:00 +0000 UTCThat’s a great point, Taryn.
RobynB
2021-06-28 16:10:23 +0000 UTCI really appreciated this interview and the insights and wisdom of both Lauren and Dr Christine. Thank you
CuriousinColorado
2021-06-28 15:59:14 +0000 UTCI want to mention that this can happen outside of religion. I had a similar situation to Dr. Christine's. I was a teenager, and the man was 12 years older. He originally became what I needed until he pulled me in and stripped me of who I was. What saved me is that I grew up (he told others that I became too independent). This happened over 40 years ago. Predators don't have to be religious. Predators are master actors. They'll be whatever you want them to be to attain their agendas.
Taryn Hodge
2021-06-28 13:50:29 +0000 UTCThis is such a beautiful interview and what an amazing woman❤️🙏🏼❤️
Karin Baird
2021-06-28 09:04:09 +0000 UTCWow, what an interview and story. And what a great message to share, about being kind to everyone. I have to admit it is hard for me to wrap my head around Dr Christine's story. I kept saying to myself "but that's not how that works..." But I know that everyone can be manipulated, we all have different buttons, and I understand the power of corecieve control- I saw it transpire in my grandparents relationship, but it wasn't until recently I had the words for it. Dr. Christine's story is a great example on why we should get corecieve control laws passed in Utah. They have them in the UK and they would help here. With those laws what he did would be considered abuse in the law. The laws can help stop people that keep skirting the law, even though it sounds like the police could go after him if they cared to.
Amber Ferdig
2021-06-28 08:44:29 +0000 UTCWow. This is such a powerful interview Lauren. I was not expecting to hear such turn of events. Bravo to the podcast and bravo to Dr Christine.. I am floored by Dr Christine's experience and her retellijg of it. I am fascinated by the science behind cult indoctrinstion explained by Dr. Christine. It is helping me to understand the inexplicable actions of Lori, which is what we all have been desperately wanting to figure out and make rational sense of. It does not elicit complete empathy from me but it does offer me new insight. People like Julie Rowe, Melanie Gibb, Lori, Chad and this group bring out such a visceral response from me, particularly when there are victims. I appreciate Dr Christine's advice of caution in perceiving things through one lense and/or manufactured perception, influence through media. Even through the gossip and speculation seen in the true crime community. Thank you.
Mildred Demiroz
2021-06-28 07:12:23 +0000 UTCI’m just “gutted” by Dr Christine’s story… no words. Did not see that coming. This was so insightful AND inspiring! Thank you ladies
Alison Umpleby
2021-06-28 06:14:50 +0000 UTCRe Melanies suggestion of loris doubts I still don’t think Lori had doubts- we only have that one quote of Melanie Gibb Starting with an IF chad is Satan We tend to start sentences with IF , when responding to someone else’s supposition So I am 95% sure Lori was responding to Melanies suggestion that Chad was the devil. We all have friends who have doubts about their husbands- they’re usually slot less cryptic and we can point to far more than one sentence to give evidence of their doubts I believe Lori was all in- and Melanie Gibbs not very bright and didn’t think Lori was saying “ no way is chad Satan- if he is- he’s a good one “ Type thing Anyways back to listening - really enjoying this episode This story really shows how dangerous magical thinking can be- thinking dreams come true, marrying people psychics have said are your soul mate for example Another common one in new age world is to say that if your relationship is super hard work, it’s a sign that’s your soul mate.
Tad Auty
2021-06-28 05:04:59 +0000 UTC
