Snow College Kidnapping: Update and Discussion
Added 2022-01-04 00:07:53 +0000 UTCJohn and I received private messages from someone who knows the sexual assault survivor and their family in Utah. With their permission, we share some of those messages. John shares his thoughts about the nature of the crime, the perpetrator, and we also talk about the different terms: "victim "and "survivor".
Comments
This stretch tears at my heart
Amanda
2024-06-09 12:18:06 +0000 UTCThank you for sharing this story. I have metal in my neck because of a predator. The cops said" well people do stupid stuff when they are drunk" and my family "well look at what you did" I told him no and he didn't care and i becamea cheater. My whole life changed. I have had a lot of shame and it threw my world into a downward spiral. I ended up in drug abuse treatment and I have permanent spinal cord damage causing spinal seizures. There are days I wish he would have killed me. Yes I'm in therapy and it helps. Things like this help me. So thank you. And to the survivor, sweetheart you are not alone and I send you good vibes and feel better hugs.
Becca Moorhead
2022-04-07 18:26:25 +0000 UTCI loved your analysis and thank you. I think there was a huge bout of misogyny that took place in this case. All of the news articles that I read indicated that they met on a consensual bondage site, thus indicating that she asked for this in some way. If that was never a part of the narrative I am sure that this news story would have been so far reaching, almost similar to the Jayme Closs case or even the Elizabeth Smart case. Only because those victims were portrayed as “pure” and “untouched.” The innocence was stripped from this victim due only to that one unverified fact and it effected the public perception. Even if fact, it is completely irrelevant to the abuse at hand. I pray for this girl’s healing and strength. I find it so disturbing and to be truly indicative of the way we still view women even in 2022. Thank you for all that you do!
Amanda Re
2022-03-13 22:27:58 +0000 UTCMy heart just bleeds for this young lady... I am a survivor myself, and have worked as a victim’s advocate. And, it never ceases to amaze me when people doubt and blame the victim in cases such as this. I cannot tell you how many times I’ve witnessed peers, parents and even medical staff mistreat a victim of a sexual assault based on their perceived notions of her lifestyle. But, most infuriating is when a law enforcement officer threatened a girl with jail if he “found out she was lying about this.” If she had not had an advocate with her, there’s no doubt in my mind she would have left the hospital and withdrawn her accusation due to his intimidation. Dr. John, why is disbelief, victim blaming and shaming still so prevalent in our society, in your opinion? We’ve come a long way in accepting so many changes in our beliefs, such as the sexuality spectrum, etc. What, in your opinion, drives so many otherwise decent people to refuse the facts regarding sexual assault and abuse? What are they really afraid of?
Katie Marlowe
2022-01-25 06:18:35 +0000 UTCThe scary thing is that Kik is marketed to young people and is on the surface just a messaging app for teens-which is bound to attract predators. If it is true he stalked her on Kik, the owners of Kik need to check some of their forums and ban those that are not age appropriate for teens.
Jennifer Priebe
2022-01-05 20:40:16 +0000 UTCShe seems very intelligent - just super naive. Anyone would who came from such a protected background. I feel so bad for her and hope she comes through this strong on the other side. I don’t judge her at all even IF she was on a BDSM message board. That did not give a creep license to rape and kidnap her. Not one bit! I hope he stays in jail.
Emily Lou
2022-01-05 20:05:51 +0000 UTCAgree with every word! Arm your kids with knowledge! If you don’t, they will be be sitting ducks out there when they leave your house! As for “purity” - It’s such a harmful concept and I hate it so much.
Emily Lou
2022-01-05 20:02:10 +0000 UTCThank you John and Lauren for your sensitivity and covering a topic that seems riddled with judgement. She is a victim and was a survivor…for sure. She clearly has a child’s mind. It’s illegal to sell crack on a street corner but there is a website (Kick/Kix…whatever) that gives a platform to sexual deviants and pedophiles? What is wrong with our society? This poor girl was a prime candidate for website predators. My heart goes out to this young woman, and I don’t care what site she was on. You think kids don’t visit porn sites? Please…
RobynB
2022-01-05 01:26:42 +0000 UTCGreat episode, thank you.
Dianne Hill
2022-01-05 00:54:46 +0000 UTCMy heart goes out to that sweet, innocent girl and her family. Dr. John, does he fit your definition of evil?
Tamara Wakeman Sukohl
2022-01-04 15:50:37 +0000 UTCThis is another example on how purity culture does not serve modern children well. It is truly critical to have an open dialogue about sex, drugs, alcohol, social media and stranger danger with your teens and young adults to keep them safe!! Children-and 17-25 year olds are VERY immature-and vulnerable when they first go out of the home to college and are eager to experiment. Young adults-especialy women are victimized during this age very often, even by classmates-they are out on their own, go to parties and get separated from friends. It is a huge topic in colleges-they had my kids watch several mandatory videos about it in their secular schools. We should be drilling into their heads not to ever go off alone with a stranger without friends or family with them, or at least knowing contact info about any blind dates so someone has their back. Even as a 50 something, I found that regular dating apps are full of dysfunctional males that lie about all kinds of things, and know the vulnerabilities of older divorced and single women! I had a scary experience with "solid" guy who worked at IBM for 30 years. After I found out about his restraining order from his wife, and his extensive stalking of her, I wrote into the app, OKCupid, where I "met" asking if they flagged people with restraining orders or records-and they don't. Even with my complaint, I have no idea if they booted the guy from the site. All daters should make sure they let their friends and family know where and when they are meeting any strangers-and all people on dating apps are strangers-there is no screening for criminal records. I don't think this young victim was that out of the ordinary for a 19 year old as far as being naive. There are tons of predators lurking with very charming profiles, good jobs, family men, etc. How do we make parents understand that discussing sex is good for their child, not an affront to their "religious" culture? The other side of the internet is that it makes predators feel anonymous and therefore more safe to break the law. There are so many ways to get taken advantage of! Hopefully some new laws and rules will come of these cases. Thanks for your discussion and Happy New Year!!
Jennifer Priebe
2022-01-04 12:52:10 +0000 UTCShe loves ice cream, dolphins, Disney movies, earrings, and dresses. Naïveté is not a crime, but it is, as John alluded to, a vulnerability. I was likely more astute and suspicious/wary of men at that age but I still did embarrassingly stupid things looking back due to my own lack of awareness. I liked what Dr. John said about validating her being a “victim” and why it’s an important and needful distinction right now. He also seemed to be saying that becoming a survivor is a process, and that letting her just be a human being right now without introducing forced therapies is likely a good start.
Melanee Evans
2022-01-04 09:26:04 +0000 UTCI think victims become survivors when they are able to identify themselves as survivors. It is definitely a journey from one to the other. I think John has very good points for using the word victim. I can’t imagine that the perpetrator didn’t see how innocent the victim was. Also, information is power and the perpetrator was able to gather lots of information about the victim. I hope the victim is able to get all the help she needs. It sounds like she has some internal resilience to draw from and of course the love of her family. I hope the best for her.
Pamela Mosdell
2022-01-04 06:44:13 +0000 UTCI LOVED this podcast. I feel you did an excellent job explaining ALL of the circumstances that could have perhaps led to this. For me, as with all of the cases you cover, I want to understand the why. Although NO victim should take on blame of any sort for what was done to them, there are things we do that increase our risks of crime happening to us. If I leave my doors unlocked and someone robs me, it’s no less the criminals fault for committing the crime. A victim is a victim. However, there are things that I can do to hopefully lesson my risk, such as locking the door. I realize that is a very basic example, but I appreciate you letting us know of things we may not realize leave us more vulnerable to crime. I know on fb in particular, quizzes go around asking people questions that seem harmless posts amongst friends. They ask things such as childhood favorite movie, favorite food, favorite color, first job etc. These quizzes are EXTREMELY dangerous with the intention of getting password info for electronic accts. Criminals are searching for those that naively fill these out. If someone’s accts become compromised, they are a victim whether they filled out the form or not. But being armed with the knowledge of what criminals look for, can make the next would be victim stop before engaging in “harmless” questionnaires with friends. I agree victim shaming is a thing. It’s a terrible trend in many true crime cases. With that being said, we all have to take personal responsibility for ourselves(I’m still not victim blaming). I think it’s very important to point out how the things happen. To just say, it was random and we have no idea how it could happen, is giving a false sense of security and not helping in the prevention of crime. I WANT to know if perhaps my daughter could innocently be posting info to an acct. She is using social media as we all believe it should be used. The reality is social media is also being used by people with bad intentions. Pointing out what a victim did, unintentionally, that gave out too much information, is not shaming or blaming but alerting others of dangers we otherwise wouldn’t know. Thanks for yet again helping me with the why, so maybe I won’t have to say that word in my life.
Stephanie Budge
2022-01-04 06:37:32 +0000 UTCI think a family can be very loving and well intentioned and still make mistakes/have blind spots.
Joanna Mulvaney
2022-01-04 06:25:23 +0000 UTCI just watched the press conference at Snow College. I didn't realize until today when I got an email and saw the press conference that I know her uncle and aunt well. We were in students housing together for 6 years at UCSD and attended the same congregation, even shared a garden plot. They are a wonderful, loving, family. I don't know Maddie and her parents, but I do know her uncle and my interpretation was that they were in great pain and trying their best to both find Maddie and guard the family's privacy. I received an email today saying how grateful they were to have found her and that was the first I knew that they were related to the case.
Valerie
2022-01-04 06:02:07 +0000 UTCI am so sorry you went through that kind of trauma. It is hard for me to even imagine.
Erica A. Zwick
2022-01-04 05:48:17 +0000 UTCBoy that's a fine line between maybe she was sheltered and maybe she wasn't sheltered enough. If my child had the mentality of a 13 year old they wouldn't be at college by themselves without supervision being so vulnerable
Crystal Swannack
2022-01-04 05:09:41 +0000 UTCI was in a similar situation when I was 14 years old. You’re scared to death. And on top of that you feel guilty, ashamed, damaged and unworthy. Or at least I did.
Nora Ann
2022-01-04 04:57:21 +0000 UTCWell said. I see your point.
Lauren and John Matthias
2022-01-04 03:55:32 +0000 UTCWhat I meant was that there’s no reason that she would think to steer clear of kik if her friends were using it too. It would not occur to kids at all that it would be any worse than WhatsApp or Facebook etc.
Joanna Mulvaney
2022-01-04 03:33:49 +0000 UTCI thought it was mentioned that she didn't try to escape because of the threats. I'd like to think that I would have left, naked and covered and coal, and RUN to the nearest house. Or, maybe I would have lost my mind. Probably. God help this young woman.
Erica A. Zwick
2022-01-04 03:30:39 +0000 UTCTrue, but predators are using it due to the extra privacy. WhatsApp and other messaging services have more information on the users.
Lauren and John Matthias
2022-01-04 03:29:25 +0000 UTCJohn and Lauren Thank you so much for sharing this story and your thoughts on it. I always love and respect your insights. As a reporter and psychologist, the two of you are, in my opinion, a perfect pair of voices to add to the true crime genre. That being said, I would like to offer a gentle criticism in your discussion of this case. Dr. John, one of the first things you commented on was the fact that she had displayed some vulnerabilities online that her alleged attacker could use to his advantage. It is those kinds of gentle suggestions that are subtle ways our society blames victims. Though the advice is well-intended, when the focus goes immediately to what SHE should have done to keep herself safe rather what what HE clearly should not have done, then the message received, no matter how unintended, is that it was something she did that caused this. Please let me reiterate that I know you don’t blame her, nor do you think anyone else should. I just would like for you to add that it doesn’t matter how much or what you share online, it doesn’t matter which social media app you use (and yes, Kik is HORRIBLE), NO ONE has the right to rape you. It may seem obvious, but survivors need to hear this!
Patricia Cezeaux
2022-01-04 03:27:43 +0000 UTCRemember, somebody had children with this creep!
Erica A. Zwick
2022-01-04 03:26:10 +0000 UTCOK, that makes me feel better. I still want to know how he got to be a monster.
Erica A. Zwick
2022-01-04 03:25:45 +0000 UTCOK, good to know! Thanks.
Erica A. Zwick
2022-01-04 03:24:53 +0000 UTCThey owned the house, but only he lived there.
Lauren and John Matthias
2022-01-04 03:22:50 +0000 UTCShe was tied up while he was at work, she couldn’t drive, she was naked and covered in coal, didnt have a phone, didn’t know where she was, he threatened her, and he had a gun and knife.
Lauren and John Matthias
2022-01-04 02:47:41 +0000 UTCThe scholarship video is a separate video. This video was done recently, before her kidnapping, not for the scholarship. She has not made any videos since her kidnapping.
Lauren and John Matthias
2022-01-04 02:45:59 +0000 UTCNo, the video was for a scholarship application before being accepted to Snow College.
Erica A. Zwick
2022-01-04 02:17:14 +0000 UTCWhy can’t people see what kind of scum bag this man is. Why would a 19 year old girl want with a gross looking 39 year old man. This young lady is such a victim. I am so happy that she was found & hopefully they will put this guy away for a long time. I wish & hope that she will get the mental health she is going to need. As always I love the positive information you put out.
Marcella Able
2022-01-04 02:07:34 +0000 UTCAnd his parents had no idea what was going on? I don't buy that for a second.
Erica A. Zwick
2022-01-04 01:58:11 +0000 UTCShe made the video before the kidnapping. And I agree, very naive
Jackie rowan
2022-01-04 01:57:58 +0000 UTCIt's hard for me to understand why a victim would not escape, if able, and go straight to the police, despite the threats from the perp. The cops would get the guy way before he could hurt her family. But, I have never been in that situation, so...
Erica A. Zwick
2022-01-04 01:52:42 +0000 UTCI was thinking the same. A kidnapper and rapist is probably a liar as well. People are idiots
Jackie rowan
2022-01-04 01:50:11 +0000 UTCAnother interpretation of her laughing and smiling at Christmas is her not wanting to ruin Christmas for her family. She’s not just feeling guilty for any role she might’ve played in getting herself kidnapped, however misdirected, but all the trauma this has visited on her family. She’s possibly doing everything she can to alleviate that and her guilt. She might be trying to convince her family and herself that she’s feeling better is going to be OK.
Jackie rowan
2022-01-04 01:46:00 +0000 UTCUhhhmmm This was done since her Attack kidnapping? Why so much personal info? This sounds like a child in 6th grade talking? Talking too much, wayyyy too much
Kathleen Suter
2022-01-04 01:15:55 +0000 UTCAlso I found the family really bizarre in both press conferences. Especially uncle. Total weirdo inappropriate statements. I am so cross about all of this having followed it on TCU etc. Appalling.
Joanna Mulvaney
2022-01-04 00:54:58 +0000 UTCPs kik is just a messaging app as far as most people are concerned
Joanna Mulvaney
2022-01-04 00:51:05 +0000 UTCI don’t know why people would uncritically take the word of a rapist who had a teenaged girl locked in the coal cellar that they met on a bondage site even if it was true why not ask HER
Joanna Mulvaney
2022-01-04 00:50:30 +0000 UTCShe is going to a major university in a big city. I was shocked at the snow college incident. The Gabby Patito incident also concerned me.
Cynthia Carter
2022-01-04 00:49:13 +0000 UTCWill listen to this soon . I have a daughter going away to college. Snow college is in the middle of nowhere. Would you and Dr, John consider doing a stand alone episode on safety away from home? Violence against women by an unknown assailant or someone my daughter is in a relationship is a big concern for me. I would like her to watch something from knowledgeable and trusted people to get ready for her big move away from home. Lauren she admires you and has your Venus fly trap mug and Dr. John she got a 5 on her AP psychology exam. She is very interested in what you guys would have to say on the subject.
Cynthia Carter
2022-01-04 00:48:06 +0000 UTCListening now! ❤️
Stephanie Budge
2022-01-04 00:29:38 +0000 UTCWow! I’ve been waiting for this. Will listen right after dinner.
CC
2022-01-04 00:24:17 +0000 UTC
