Twilight Made Me Question The Very Existence Of Love

Definitely interested in a video essay on Twilight's place in the world/expanded opinion

Rachael W

Yeah one of my coworkers read it before me and I asked them to tell me what happens. I then proceeded to call them a lying liar who lies because no way did that shit happen. I then apologized a week later after I finally got a chance to read it.

Mythologian

And THEN i found the bestest thing EVAR. A Twilight wherein Bella is RATIONAL. It redeemed EVERYTHING about Twilight! Google 'Luminosity' by Alicorn. It's one of the best things I've ever . read

Elizabeth Barnett

I am a Reader. Multiple books per week. In my 43 years, i have not finished TWO books. The twilight were bookfinished ( grant, i threw 2 in a river, one off of freeway and i set one on fire.

Elizabeth Barnett

I can tell you now, New Moon and Eclipse are gonna blow your mind! anyway, this review was very interesting. You hit a lot of things that I notice myself when I read the series. I'd really be interested in seeing your thoughts on the moral implications, and all your thoughts on it in general outside of your standard analysis that you usually give us. I personally feel as though Stephanie Meyer unintentionally gave us a literary showing of various mental/emotional/behavioral disorders. Because, I really have such a love-hate relationship with this series, and the more I think on it, the more I feel as though maybe she was trying to be satirical or something because there are some things I just don't know how anyone can write.

Jailah Wilson

You know, with these, and the 50 Shades books, I think I found the Simpsons quote that applies most to them, from C. Montgomery Burns of all people - "Too cold and clammy. Where's the heart?"

douledamn

Love this so far! I’m currently reading midnight sun (bc I was just so curious and I love a good trash read lol) and decided not to read twilight before just to have a fresh experience. Halfway through and it IS very interesting mostly bc of Edwards mind reading. And I was also starting to like Bella (maybe because Ed spends half the time waxing poetic about Bella just as she did to him in twilight) but then after watching this I realized that I just like her more than before bc I’m not subject to her inner thoughts anymore lol. Ed is lucky he can’t read her mind, otherwise they never would have been in “love”

Super Fan Sophie

Well ... Jacob's better, I'll even say a lot better, but he doesn't get off the hook for the forced kissing. Although, what's worse about that scene is her POLICE OFFICER father hearing that another boy made her kiss him, and laughing. He congratulates him. For assaulting his daughter. That might be in the top 5 grossest things in the series.

Crescent Minor

Well, your creative juices are really flowing for this project! I'm glad the book reviews are going so well. It sounded like you were disappointed in the direction of the poll, but this is turning out quite funny and cool.

Crescent Minor

ngl i had to rewatch the skit a few times bc i was laughing so hard i didn't get all of the first time around i wouldn't complain if you explored the backlash to the series more--bc it's kind of hard to talk about the series without it imo--but idk if it's necessary to do a whole video on the misogyny part of it, especially when in your preview video you mentioned lindsay ellis's video on the topic which is very good imo, you could always link to that or smth. i would be interested in someone addressing the more .... dubious stuff wrt the quillayute, i understand if you as a white english guy don't feel comfortable exploring it in-depth, but i do think it ought to be brought up, it's something that seems to be missing from a lot of discourse about twilight unfortunately. i look forward to the rest of the series, there's so many wonderful wtf moments ahead for you :)

Kaitlin

I have to say that the trope that love is the most important thing is shoved down girls' throats constantly. Actually, it is shoved down women's throats as well. This all right before the switch over that you see in the Disney films from Brave (2012) through Frozen (2015) when love becomes less of a motivation and women can do something else. But look at the teen romance movies on Netflix - it is a lot of the same thing.\

I'm not sure that I agree with the idea that initial attraction is love. A definition that has served me well for most of my adult life is that "love is condition wherein another's happiness and wellbeing are intrinsic to your own happiness" a definition I particularly like as it fits multiple levels of love from the love of a car or a houseplant, to a soulmate, to good friends, or perhaps most importantly the love of cats. It is a service you perform, and because it generally is a good to perform that service (except when one does it for one's predator) your brain rewards you with happy drugs. I think that is the evolutionary reason for the happy drugs: because we are a social species that requires cooperation to survive. It is unfortunate that we seem to have developed so many narcissists who now prey upon the agreeableness of performing that service to maintain their happiness and wellbeing without feeling the same in return, but I suppose they are the inevitable barnacles of an overly successful species and should not be used as justification to throw out the entire concept of love.

Kat

You good, Dom? xD Seriously though, your idea of the predator/prey canonically being drawn to each other by evolution/nature quirks (Ed drawn to Bella's blood and Bella drawn to the evolutionary trap) rather than the more typical means, and then trying to keep a relationship despite that and its implications, leading to an examination of "what is love, really" is super interesting and I'm sure you've already put more thought into this than the author did. :p I've never read the books (hell, I forgot there was more than 3 in the original series), but now I'm interested in how much Meyer does/does not lean into that idea and how much is just "they love each other SO MUCH." Like I think I heard about some lion and lamb metaphors and Eddy being emo about how dangerous he is to Bella, but I don't know if it's ever really examined beyond a point of tension that Bella completely ignores because LUFF. (But again, never read the books.)

SweetAgnostis

Not gonna lie, this book series would have been in my faves list if it had come out during my teen years. 😆 But this came out while I was in my late 20s and I had no interest in it. I was forced to read it by a friend who lent me her book. Finished it in 3 hours and refused to read anymore. I didn't hate it but the writing was too basic and flat for me.

PamelaSu

I don't know if someone has already said this but at some point in the series there is a conversation that explains why the Cullens go to school. Basically the move every 10 years or so people don't get the chance to realise they are not ageing. Forks is a town they keep coming back to because it rains so much there that they don't have to worry about sunlight giving them away as something inhuman. The younger Cullens go to school because the younger they pretend to be when they 'first' arrive the longer they can stay before someone begins to get suspicious of their not ageing. Now I think about it they may be in the leaked chapters of Midnight Sun which I read way back when they were first leaked. I was a teenage girl when the twilight craze was at it's peak, I basically only read the first one because I saw the trailer for the movie and for some possibly masochistic reason I like to read the book before I see the movie. Both books and films were major subjects of discussion by my friends at the time. I mostly read and watched them because otherwise I would be left out of the conversation. Fairly quickly I begin to find Bella's passivity irritating. Though I remember finding the chapters in Breaking Dawn about the special abilities of some vampires interesting.

I wasn't expecting another song at the end and I definitely wasn't expecting it to Shiny, it got me man. I laughed so hard I started choked. Also, enjoyed the existentialism in the middle about love, there was a very real sense of you panicked mania as you unraveled in the face of your realization.

Talis C

I’m actually proud I was Team Jacob back in the day because it means that 19 year old me, on some level, knew what a healthy relationship was supposed to look like. Though I’m also reminded that Burger King had a movie tie in that used this angle and yeah going in to buy a burger and seeing team Jacob and team Edward plastered everywhere is a super surreal memory

Dragoncat

I really like the deep thought on how it's a predatory tactic they've evolved and just can't help - shame Meyers contradicated herself almost straight away. I'm really looking foward to your views on the others.

Katrina Trigari

Not finished yet, but had to comment that: TEAM JACOB!!!!!!!!

Nienna

I too wish to hear your thoughts on Twilight‘s place in the universe.

I’m one of those people who was a teenage girl when the saga was coming out, and I am enough of a fan still that as soon as I heard that midnight sun was coming out, I preordered it. Rereading the twilight saga since becoming an adult has allowed me to see many flaws in the story that I would not be so forgiving of if I was reading them for the first time today. That said, as a romance genre lover, the amount of vitriol and and unhealthy crap I have to wade through in order to find a good wholesome love story, is staggeringly mountainous, and twilight is nowhere near even my top 100 unhealthy romance stories that are generally accepted (has a fairly sizeable fan base that will defend it) by society. I actually liked a lot of your points in this Dom, and generally agree with them. One thing; Personally, I have always thought that the reason why Edward at least, becomes attracted to Bella initially, can -somewhat ironically- be found in the opening chapter of Midnight Sun, which was put up on Meyer's website all those years ago. Namely, when Bella first catches Edwards attention, it is through the thoughts of others. Most of whom are teenege boys obssesing over the new girl. He dismisses their obsession as shallow, "it was the same reaction as one would get from flashing a shiny object at a group of toddlers. ... just becouse she was something new to look at." Bella is, by the silence of her mind, something new to Edward. Edward can't switch off his telapathy, so whether he wants to or not, he is forced to know everything about everyone around him. The good, the bad, and the ugly. This is also given as the reason for why he was never really attracted to Rosalie, because while she is outwardly quite beautiful and composed, inwardly she can be more than a bit of a snarky, self absorbed, whiner, whom he can sometimes find it quite exhausting to be around. Bella, on the other hand, he has a chance to get to know organically, which in many ways is a true gift to him. To your worry about having to go about life as team Jacob. Let me put your fears to rest, although he initially seems like the healthier option; he doesn't take "No." to mean no, is pushy, recognises when he is making Bella badly uncomfortable, and decides that he doesn't give a shit becouse "he understands Bella better then she understands herself". Gross. But I wont say anymore, and let you rant about that when you get to it. FROM HERE DOWN, IS THE PART THAT I HOPE YOU WILL SEE DOM A lot of people do not like Midnight Sun because it portays Bella as a girl who had her world shattered, and completely fell a part because a guy left. And I do understand that. However, when I was a teenager myself, MIDNIGHT SUN WAS A SOURSE OF GREAT STRENGTH FOR ME. Why? Well, though I have never had my world shattered by a boy in the same way Bella has, I have, for a very long time, struggled with depression. And the thing about depression is that a lot of the time it doesn't make sence, but it is crippling and all consuming. In the later books and by real people, Jacob is often credited for Bella's recovery after Edward leaves. Hell, even Edward thanks him for being there for Balla when he wasn't. This pisses me off!! Sure, he was there, and he helped. But Bella was the one who went to him for help. Bella was the one who asked him to teach her how to ride a motorbike, because she realised that she could get herself to feel (something, anything!) if she was doing dangerous activities. Bella was the one who, when Jacob starts giving her the cold sholder for no apparent reason, doesn't just curl up again and let herself regress, but decides to go hiking on her own and to try to move forward. (This decision is spurred by the fact that she feels that she can avoid the area's where a wolf has been spotted, and more importantly, she feels she has enough experience at this point to not get lost) And YES! None of Bella's coping mechanisims are exactly the healthiest ever, but she is trying, and after realising that she wants to act in a self destructive way, the first thing she does is ASK FOR THE HELP OF SOMEONE WHO KNOWS WHAT THEY'RE DOING!!! In effect, greatly reducing the chance that she will actually end up permanantly hurting herself very badly. Side rant; Jacob, pushy a**whole that he is, then takes that trust that Bella put into him as a friend - while in a very vulnerable state - and constantly tries to use that trust to push her into letting him become her boyfriend. As to the whole spending collage fund money thing. First off, she saved that money herself. It's not her parents money, so she should get to spend it how she wants. Secondly, sometimes you just gotta take care of your mental health before you can do anything else. Yes, using that money to pay for therapy would have been more constructive. But we have already established that she was not in a very constructive mental state at the time. Even with that, she didn't just spurge it all on a brand f*cking new bike. She got free bikes, then went to her friend who agreed to fix them at the cost of the replacement parts! Someone, who she thought was a person she could trust. Midnight Sun is often given the worst reputation of the Twilight Saga books. Touting it as proof of Bella's weakness. For me, however, it has always remained proof of Bella's strength, and during my own formative years, it helped to keep me going, keep moving, even when I struggled to see the point in even trying. So yeah, I just wanted to put my two cents in. I don't know if you'll read this Dom, but if you do, just hear me out. Midnight Sun is not a happy book. And Jacob is right, Bella would have likely eventually been fine if Edward hadn't come back. Not because of Jacob though. It is true that he helped and that he was there for her. (The fact that he is a jerk who can't get the concept that Bella is hurting, and NOT READY to start another relationship aside.) But Bella was the one that picked herself up over and over again to try to move forward. Eventually, she would have gotten to a place where she was doing ok. That's it, if you have read this entire long winded comment, I thank you for your patience. I just wanted to give you my perspective before you dove into the making of the Midnight Sun review, as I know it is not a common one. Though maybe you've already finished it, and just haven't put it up yet. In which case, ah, I tried.

Saaski

I'm glad to see so much positive discourse. I am good-naturedly ribbed, called a "hater" because I do not believe Twilight should be marketed to children. Whether Edward is human or not, he behaves very inhumanly to Bella, and that is not ok! And Jacob is no better, because he does not take "no" for an answer. I'm not down with the Bella hate because she is a human woman put in a supernatural situation, and forced to keep it a secret. That would be enough to stress anyone out. I don't like her personality, but I can acknowledge what she is going through. Also I do not think abusive behavior (stalking, forced entry, belitting at the least), no matter who does it, should be framed as romantic.

When I read the Twilight books, I promised a friend I would. I hated feeling like a teenager and when I finished them, I felt free! Like I could be an adult again! With real grown-up thoughts! Listening to you talk about it validates me to no end. I agree with the comments above. Listening to you talk about Twilight is FAR more entertaining than the actual book. You remain amazing!

I think a lot of the outrage was about the main charachters not being good role models. A lot of people seem to think that if you write young adult novels and especially if you're a female author your obligation is to write about charachters that do the right thing and have good values. As long as I can remember I've found it intersting to read about people that are openly selfish, enjoy doing bad things, have poor impulse control or in other ways are a bit dark. (And as a teen I found it insulting that a lot of adults didn't think I was capable of understanding the difference between novels and real life.) If a 17 year old become immortal, get extraordinary abilities that no human can match, become insanly good looking, start to crave blood and on top of that get adopted by a really rich family...that person is bound to become kind of creepy. Edward didn't really get to choose but Bella can choose between having that or keep living a fairly normal life and she prefers the power even if it means not being able to see her parents again and risk not being able to control herself enough to not kill someone. She's not a psychopath indefferent to other peoples suffering, but she yearns for a different life and that's relatable and intersting to read about. However, I wish Stepahnie Meyer had developed the other Cullen vampire characters more because they had much more interesting back stories.

Tbh, I always took a relationship with Edward as part of the package deal of being one of the Cullens. Not only would you have the "perfect boyfriend," but you would have Alice as a loving sister, and Esme and Carlisle as caring parental figures and Emmet as the goofy big brother. Jasper and Rosalie are also in the picture somewhere, but I think there is so much more to the benefits of being in love with Edward than just "vampire boyfriend." You also get vampire Family.

Rachel Denham-White

The flytrap thing is an entirely new thing that I've never heard before, and by jove you've done it, you actually had something new to say about twilight! I loved it! I loved hearing a generally neutral and not bashing take on the book. It allowed me to get an actual idea of the book and why it was so popular (I never read it). I really liked this episode so much. I'm so sorry you will have to sit through New moon though.

Wednessday L Ezaki

Omg the song at the end I'm DYING. Also I can't wait until he gets to the "filler" book.

I'd love to hear you talk about Twilight, it's a much more entertaining book to discuss instead of read.

Rachel Denham-White

Just wait until we get to Eclipse. Then it’ll get much more like Fifty Shades! Also, I once again love Il Neige’s outro song! Any chance of him ever uploading them on his channel?

Katsala

Analyzing the fact that this book portrays many toxic dating behaviors as romantic has been done to death, and you've covered a lot of that ground with your Fifty Shades series. If you decide to do videos other than adaptation comparisons, then I'd personally like to see more tackling of WHY it did so well among its target audience. There's no way that millions of girls read this and said "This is an abusive relationship, but Edward is so cute that I don't care!". There has to be more to its lasting popularity. Also, I believe that most of the initial criticism the films and books received was not in good faith. Very few people were saying "This has flawed elements" but plenty were saying "This is stupid. Girls like it. Therefore, girls are stupid for liking it. And why does he sparkle??" I want to see more good faith criticism of women's media, and I think you've delivered on that in the past.

I'd be interested to see your take on the series and its backlash. However, I would really appreciate it if you analyzed the relationship between the backlash and this societal tendency to write off teenage girl's interests as inherently "stupid". I feel that a lot of the backlash had less to do with the actual novel and was more about making fun of teenagers and older women for being overly and visibly excited about something. I don't remember a backlash of that nature happening after something like, say, the Star Wars prequels, where men were the ones lined up in front of the theaters in costumes. When the backlash from those films hit, it was directed at Lucas and the franchise, not so much the fans.

I agree and I also think people judged it more harshly because it was so popular amongst older women and teenage girls. A lot of the backlash I remember seeing was directed towards the fan's reactions instead of the actual book.

N-O-P-E!! Creepy behavior is creepy behavior not love. Steve Urkel....CREEP! Screech...CREEP! Ducky...FUCK THAT GUY CREEP!

Kimberly Weekes

Honestly the Twilight movies and books are guilty pleasures for me. Mainly for almost every character idea and setting concept other the Bella and Edward but I do still enjoy the movies, the books are just to... boring? boring.

HungryWinner

I mean if you want to write a video essay on something literature based, I'll watch it.

I've been re-watching some favourite Vsauce episodes recently, and once you got started on the whole spiel about how Edward and Bella work for each other - and especially once you went "or is it?" - I was honestly expecting you to start popping into frame with each cut while "Moon Men" plays in the background. Not what I thought this video was going to be, but I really liked it.

Timur Hahn

Breaking dawn review is gonna be some funny shit. The first 3 books are just bad romance. BD takes the train to crazy town

Diego Valdes

You think Bella's descriptions are repetitive now? I can't wait til you get to New Moon and the "hole in [her] heart"

Dom, you are one tall drink of Dr. Pepper.

Leeber Snowy

I liked your thoughts on how Edward's stalker-like behavior could have been a character flaw that provided him with an opportunity for growth. I will admit, when I first read the book as a teenager, I found the whole "watching Bella sleep" thing romantic. Maybe I viewed it as him watching over/protecting her? Definitely not the case now, though. :)

Melanie Klump

Hit enter by accident. Anyway, Edward is only 17. He's still a teenager with the mind and maturity of one

Magical Mr. Mistoffelees

All the shallow emotional stuff and asshole behavior makes sense, though. Vampires are frozen at the age they're turned

Magical Mr. Mistoffelees

Firstly: that acted out synopsis was comedy-gold. What a Bella! :D Secondly: I really liked your thoughts on the idea of love (or the escalation we witnessed that editing was scary!) and how that idea of love portrayed in Twilight is too real when you think about it too much. Thirdly: Oh my god your take on "why it did so well with the teenage girl audience" was so eye opening and like another comment said, is kind of an uncomfortable self realisation. I remember when I read Twilight for the first time I was 15. I remember the beautiful and popular girls in my class having like multiple guys crushing on them and me, thinking I was funny and ok looking but apparently not meeting the popular girl type of the 2000s, just thinking "so I'm not worth it huh". So Twilight really hit a sensitive point when it took the "popular guy can't help but fall in love with average girl" trope to the supernatural (and in retrospect) unhealthy maximum. Fourth: Just a fun fact which really adds a weird layer to all the points you mentioned - I am German so I read the German version and the German publishers actually changed the titles of the book. They did not use the translation of the word "Twilight" but instead called it "Bis(s) zum Morgengrauen" which is actually a pun as it can be read as "Until Dawn" as well as "Bite at Dawn" becauas "bite" and "until" have the same pronounciation. I think they did not expect that one of the later books would literally be titled "Until Dawn" in the original language, huh. That made things confusing. Also as nobody got bitten at dawn I was kinda disappointed at this false advertising :D

“What is love? Baby, don’t hurt me.” - very applicable song to this series

I feel... very sad now

Holly Campbell

I would certainly enjoy your thoughts on the reaction to Twilight as a whole. Regarding your ending point, about not deserving to be singled out for the hate, I think a good comparison might be James Cameron's "Avatar". Is it good? No. It's derivative, unimaginative, and ham-fisted in its message. However is it the worst thing ever? No. From my perspective, the hatred comes in when you consider that "Avatar" became the highest-grossing film of all time for a while, leading everyone to more aggressively point out its flaws. Similarly, I think the fact that Twilight did get so big in terms of fandom contributed to the disproportionate backlash. It was the biggest fish in the pond, so everyone went after it, when there were far worse things they could have been attacking.

Matt Storrs

I would definitely be interested in your video essay on Twilight's place in the world As for why it got so hated (and Anne Rice didn't), I think it's because Twilight was heralded as the next Harry Potter before being superceded by Hunger Games, after Percy Jackson didn't quite happen in the same way. What I'm trying to say is, I don't think it was judged on its own merits but against what popular opinion said the next phenomenon should be like.

Kat Deuchars

The "Shiny" parody got me right in the feels.

SwamplingLvr

That description of why Twilight appeals to young women made me realise some things about myself and I don't like it. But at least I very much enjoyed this video, and I look forward to the rest, and that's coming from someone who initially wished you would tackle something else, both because I figured it was a dead horse and because I feel like you've been through enough.

Judin

Acknowledging that Jacob is the lesser of two evils doesn’t make you team Jacob. If she chose Jacob she’d have to give up significantly less (I.e. her humanity). I accept this argument and say hang them all to both pairings. I consider myself to be Team Rosalie: Bella is an idiot Mary-Sue and she has no idea what she’s getting herself into. Rosalie gets dumped on for being mean and jealous, but she speaks from experience. I don’t hate Twilight. I just think that Meyers decided to focus on all the wrong characters. Bella and Edward are two of the most boring characters ever created.

As for the title, "Inside the Head of a submissive Blank Slate"? The physical pheromone-etc-lure that draws people to vampires has long been part of the myth, so far as I know. Even in black-and-white films, perhaps even in the era of silent film. Edward might be excused for mistaking Bella's and his infatuation for the real thing, because maybe he has never yet known real love? Sadly, sometimes humans don't come across it for a long time, either. But that does not mean that this really is love, and that decisions do not figure into love. :-)

Gerda Strobl

I loved your acted synopsis!

Traci CD

I’d love to hear your thought about the popularity of twilight and the backlash! I have heard a few opinions on it and have my own thoughts, but all interpretations are valid and add something to the conversation about what gets our attention in culture and why.

Caffeine_unicorn

Eddy and Bella 😂😂