Torchwood 1x1 Poll!

In the video I understand that you guys are saying that the spray creates attraction therefore their desire to have sex is consensual because that is what they now want... but they did not consent to have this fake desire chosen for them. So I definitely see this as rape. I was really glad hearing Eric argue his point because I completely agreed.

Yes it's Rape. Even if you argue that the substance only enhances desires you already have, she didn't consent to have it used on her and was not made aware of it. It's like secretly putting alcohol in someones drink to loosen them up increase the chance they'll willingly sleep with you. Looking at the poll results - you guys have a really awesome audience.

On that note, I'm glad this topic came up. People need to talk about issues like these. Sure it can be divisive and BW usually tries to stay positive, but this topic is worthy of the discussion. As long as the discourse is respectful, it's good that it is happening. :)

rayza31

From what I saw, she consented because of the spray. Whether it directly induced her to say yes or it only lowered her inhibitions is irrelevant. An intervening cause influenced her decision. For his part, Owen consciously chose to introduce a substance to his partner's system for the sole purpose of ensuring his sexual gratification. If that's not "rapey" I don't know what is.

rayza31

Its rape! There really is no defending it in my eyes

Jon Dub

isn't it basically the same as david tennant's character in jessica jones? we just never saw the after effects after it wore off in torchwood

I think we can all agree on that the spray does something. She did not ask to be affected by whatever the spray does. She has no say in it. He sprays it and she is affected. She goes from not interested to I need you now because of the effects of the spray, not because it was the next step in that conversation. Even if she secretly wants him she was not acting on her feelings. He did something to change that without her say in the matter. Same for the boyfriend. He was ready to beat Owens ass. A little bit of spray and he wants to fuck him?? But sure, the boyfriend secretly wants Owen too. If the spray simply lower inhibitions and exaggerate a want or need that is already present, the boyfriend would be more likely to start beating or even killing Owen. The women DID check Owen out. Did she? she alone in a bar, you have to look somewhere. She's looking in his direction, he turns around they make eye contact and she looks away. It was a total of 5 seconds. I highly doubt she's the sort who stays true to her boyfriend if someone better were to come along. I'm genuinely curious on what you base this statement.

We don't know how the spray works - it could simply lower inhibitions and exaggerate a want or need that is already present. The women DID check Owen out. I highly doubt she's the sort who stays true to her boyfriend if someone better were to come along. The entire bit with the boyfriend I think was done simply to be edgy and show that sexuality isn't so closed.

Holiday1021

Yeah, I agree. I think it's mentioned in later episodes that Jack gives off a sort of a pheromone too. So I see their point. However the spray is clearly different.

Antony Oscar

Yeah, I agree. Attraction =/= consent.

Antony Oscar

All I'll say is that I think it 100% takes away consent from how it's presented in the show. Sexual attraction can still be there, and it can be non-consensual. Someone could take home someone who'd previously expressed attraction to them, but if that person is drunk, then it's not consensual. Someone can not feel like having sex at the moment, even if an attraction is there, and if that person is forced to having sex by mind altering substances that without a doubt will have that affect, there's no consent. I also kind of agree with Eric that the show definitely didn't think it through either, which could be criticized in itself, and didn't discuss it at as much length as the guys or the comments have.

JojoInSpace

This isn't even a question, she didn't want to sleep with him. He then proceeds to spray a substance that changes her mind despite clearly wanting nothing to do with him. It's rape, and it's super uncomfortable that 3 of you are even slightly defending it.

1) Absolutely rape. This isn't a question. 2) Tosh was the doctor examining the pig alien creature created by the Slitheen.

Fajen Thygia

If two people willingly dosed each other, might be an interesting experience.

Fajen Thygia

If you think about it, Consent isn't "Not saying 'No.'" If they don't say "Yes" of their own free will, it's not consent.

The fact that anyone thought this wasn’t rape makes me sad

Eric Paul Owens

He drugged both people. Argument over.

CavemanSteve

The pheromones alter the other person's brain chemistry. Whether it's based on something natural or not, it's basically chemical mind control. It's what Kilgrave did to Jessica and Hope (and who knows how many other people), he made them want it. The moment you bring in a foreign agent (alcohol, drugs, pheromones etc.) that influences a person's thought process, it's date rape. It doesn't matter if it's based on something natural, it doesn't matter if they technically said yes, and it doesn't matter if they may have wanted it later on, what happened in this instance WAS RAPE.

Kay Scruton

Its No different then the whole idea of love potion number 9 where its in since a drug and one person is using it weither the other person wants to be with that person or not. In Lamens terms Eric is Right.

Skeletor

I want to ask everyone, but especially the people who voted no, if given the spray, would you use it?

Tina L

Most definitely rape, kilgrave's powers were based on pheromones and there was no dispute that his "victims" had no consent. This is the same situation, just presented in a different manner.

Other people have eloquently explained why the spray removes consent. In the end there is no valid argument to the contrary. Since this is a contentious subject, I want to remind Aaron, Calvin, and everyone who voted 'no' that we all learn new things every day and that it is okay to be wrong so long as we do not allow ourselves remain ignorant. I was really disappointed watching this video but still love you all.

She said no first. He sprayed it. Then she said yes. Same thing happens to a straight man, next (no in universe reason to believe he’s suddenly bisexual or closeted, that’s a reach). I don’t see what more is needed.

Kevaughn Hunter

At face value, it's totally rape. I understand the argument of the other members though. If the spray was simply enhanced pheromones and not literal mind control, then it's pretty much the same as talking up game or wearing makeup. But, at face value from what we see, it looked like she just jumped from whatever position she had to full on ready to go. I don't think the other members should be condemned as hard as they were in the YT comments. There IS an argument for the other side if we knew more about the spray. However, we don't, so we have to take it as what we see. And what we see makes it rape.

I agree 100%. If the spray had made someone to notice Owain more when they would have normally overlooked him would have demonstrated with "power " of the spray without resulting the highly dubious consent that happened in the show.

Tina L

The most disturbing part of those scenes is they were used for heroic and comedic effect. We were supposed to be impressed with how Owain was able to get someone to show clear disinterest to "change" her mind. And then, when he sprays the boyfriend, it was played for comedy to have the guy into it because Owain wanted to get laid so badly and so would "take one for the team" in order to get what he really wanted. I don't think it was supposed to endear us to Owain, at least, I hope that was the case. It was supposed to demonstrate how dangerous the tec is and how it must be respected. As well as the fact that the Torchwood team had no issue with bending (or straight up breaking) THEIR OWN rules if it serves them; which is something they regularly do with the local authorities. Even though, I know there wasn't enough time for the show to get into it, I would have liked to see Jack and the team berate Owain for his behavior. Instead, it was treated like he had stolen office supplies from work. Sigh. At least there's Rick and Morty to show us how things should have gone. Just a huge mess with a lot of consequences.

Tina L

Thank you for sharing your story. I am so sorry that happened to you.

Tina L

I don't think the 2 are the same. A person can do all those things and you can still decide not to sleep with them. It's not about attractiveness it's about choice. Owen sprayed himself so she would sleep with him. These pheromones were so strong that she felt the need to sleep with him as soon as possible. Owen didn't ask: is it cool if I spray myself with this stuff so that you will find me wildly attractive. He just did it. Taking away her choice. If he had asked her her answer would be no because she does not want to sleep with him.

The fact the spray made them instantly grab them and kiss them leads me to believe it's not just 'enhanced attraction' but full on mind altering control. If it just made the guy more sexy to them then they would start flirting but to instantly grab them and start making out is so extreme that it's totally as though they were being controlled. Anything that removes choice or coerces you to do things is rapey. We all do things to ourselves to make ourselves more attractive like wear nice clothes, perfume, make up etc but applying lipstick doesn't have such an effect on people that they don't even have enough control to finish their sentence before needing to suddenly grab you. So the spray is way more than just an attraction enhancer.

Emma McSweeney

I would have to say yes because its a very interesting Topic/Conversation that I could get all into. But the jist of it, is the fact that she was not interested and that Owen had forced himself upon her. The pheromone was just a way of giving her an unknowing sense of consent. Again it would be clarified if we got to see what happened after the effects wore off but all in all it was rape hands down.

Kiyan Qwindu

Be furious somewhere else.

Jon Dub

i feel like more information about how it works exactly is needed for a clear answer to be given.

Definitely yes

PCGaming

I'm honestly really disappointed in you guys. This shouldn't even be a discussion. Of course that was rape. This discussion and poll makes me furious.

Joshua Varghese

I'll be honest, I'm slightly suspicious of anyone who votes No here.

Dale Denton

That was some Bil Cosby shit.

Steddy

I've never really talked about this but giving the slightly disturbing discussion I feel it's necessary to talk about it. I was drugged at university, in my freshers week so I was still fairly new to partying etc, to wake up the next morning knowing what had happened to me, to my body. There was no consent, it was RAPE. The same goes for this show. The woman had no interest in him, he roofied her. Rape. The man had no interest, roofied him, Rape. It's 100% free of consent and was that man forcing himself onto those people. There's no, what if or pheromone that. If they say no, or they don't say yes, it's RAPE.

Shannon Hollis

I mean, I wouldn't say it *robbed* them of the ability to give consent. It just made him seem far more desirable to give consent to than he normally would be.

Wolf6120

This isn’t even yes or no kind of question. The ONLY answer is YES. They had zero choice in what happened to them, they gave no consent, they were not responsible for their actions, this was RAPE. This is actually the first poll I’ve ever come across that actually made me angry over its existence. There shouldn’t be a debate over this, it was rape. Period.

Keyboard Junkie

Just think Killgrave, guys. It's manipulating the chemistry in their brain. Without it, she would not have changed her mind.

Ian Vega

Seemed pretty rapey to me

tsujoi

Owen is a pussy ass bitch... so yes, i dont think they had a choice

Ryan O'Malley